#: 13763 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 00:08:12 Sb: #13761-#MM1 Questions: Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen - I think cgfx.l was written in C. I started to write one in asm, but Mike H had done such a great job, that I switched and wrote a bgfx instead (for basic). No idea on _ss_palette. No keyboard mouse yet, but thanks for the reminder! Manuals for windows soon; I've heard OSK manuals are going out. Wish I had time to play with Oddjob, but haven't so far! There is 1 Reply. #: 13764 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 01:00:43 Sb: #13763-MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kev... I'm managing to stumble along so far without manuals, but they sure would make things easier. I've managed to write around anything in cgfx.l that I can't get to work. You've got a bgfx! When do we get it? I don't like Basic too much, but it's nice for roughing out ideas quickly. I've got a copy of Leventhal's 68000 assembler book on the way - when that gets here, I'll be in business. Hey, can you tell us any details of how to get at all the nice hardware goodies built into the VSC chip, or is that all a secret? I'd hate to have to do everything legally, ya know... (ie. through the OS) #: 13765 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 11:23:19 Sb: #13761-#MM1 Questions: Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Are you the same guy who had the problems with the Palette() fucntion in the lib? 'Cause I compiled the code posted and had the expected results. (No '1's printed to my screen!) I'm asking cause the _ss_palette() function works fine too. Maybe your not calling it quite right, so here's an example: [Continued Next Message] There are 2 Replies. #: 13777 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Dec-91 00:32:59 Sb: #13765-MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hi Mike... Tried that little program you gave me in your messages. When I compiled it with the stock MM/1 cgfx.l, it wouldn't work. Drew the lines, but hadn't loaded the palette registers, so they didn't change to red, green, etc. I downloaded the cgfx.l from here, recompiled and it works!!! I haven't tried yet, but I assume the Palette function is fixed too. Any MM/1 owners out there being frustrated by this thing - delete the stock cgfx.l and get version 2 from here!!! BTW - I was calling everything correctly - I recompiled some of the source I couldn't get to work before with the new lib and it ran fine! Thanks Mike... #: 13856 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 21:25:08 Sb: #13765-#MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hi Mike... Hey, can I post version 2 of cgfx.l on Delphi? Some people over there are interested in it and can't afford to log on here. There is 1 Reply. #: 13919 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Jan-92 16:18:53 Sb: #13856-#MM1 Questions: Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) I rather not have it posted. There is a newer Version to be released RSN. I don't mind if you E-Mail copies to folks that have MM/1's tho... Sound OK? There is 1 Reply. #: 13924 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Jan-92 22:13:12 Sb: #13919-MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hi Mike... Sounds OK to me. What's in the new version? #: 13766 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 11:24:11 Sb: #13761-MM1 Questions: Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) /* Paltst.c */ #include #define STDOUT 1 #define DELAY 4 char pals[256][3]; main() { int count, path; char ch; if ((path = open("/w",3)) == -1) { printf("Cannot open '/w'\n"); exit(1); } DWEnd(path); DWSet(path,3,0,0,40,26,0,0,127); Select(path); CurOff(path); ScaleSw(path,0); drawlines(path); sleep(DELAY); for (count = 0; count < 256; count++) { /* set to shades of red */ pals[count][0] = count; pals[count][1] = 0; pals[count][2] = 0; } _ss_palette(path,0,pals,256); sleep(DELAY); for (count = 0; count < 256; count++) { /* set to shades of green */ pals[count][0] = 0; pals[count][1] = count; pals[count][2] = 0; } _ss_palette(path,0,pals,256); sleep(DELAY); for (count = 0; count < 256; count++) { /* set to shades of blue */ pals[count][0] = 0; pals[count][1] = 0; pals[count][2] = count; } _ss_palette(path,0,pals,256); sleep(DELAY); for (count = 0; count < 256; count++) { /* set to shades of grey */ pals[count][0] = pals[count][1] = pals[count][2] = count; } _ss_palette(path,0,pals,256); sleep(DELAY); DefColr(path); /* Now back to the default palette */ /* sound the bell, wait for user input then close /w */ Bell(path); read(path,&ch,1); Select(STDOUT); close(path); } /* Draw a scale gradient from left to right, using all 256 colors and the entire screen */ drawlines(path) int path; { int count; /* now draw lines in the new colors */ for (count = 0; count < 320; count++) { FColor(path,(count * 256) / 320); SetDPtr(path,count,0); Line(path,count,207); } } [ Continued Next Message ] #: 13767 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 11:24:43 Sb: #13761-#MM1 Questions: Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) If this doesn't work, as it does here, then let me know. Did you grab the last cgfx.l here in the lib? Or are you using the one that came with the MM/1 disks? There is 1 Reply. #: 13773 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 21:27:50 Sb: #13767-MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hi Mike... Thanks... I'll try that and see if it does the trick. I'm using the cgfx.l that came with the MM/1. Is the one here better? #: 13775 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 21:33:30 Sb: colors.ar Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: All Hi all... If you have trouble running 'colors', make sure you do a 'tmode nopause' before running it. I don't think I put it in the program... #: 13781 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jan-92 10:53:08 Sb: #13759-#shell Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) IDENT shows it as edition #52. It's the one that came with my production model MM-1. Maybe it's the HD? I'm on floppies. --Colin There is 1 Reply. #: 13783 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jan-92 18:15:05 Sb: #13781-#shell Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X) That's the same shell version as I have. And mine does not access .login! Hmmm, maybe it something in the way init or sysgo is set up??? Have to do some sluething... There is 1 Reply. #: 13791 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jan-92 20:47:31 Sb: #13783-shell Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Hmm. I dunno! If you need some more info from me, feel free to ask! --Colin #: 13843 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 12:51:03 Sb: #TOP curses Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Has anyone had any success using the TOP version of ncurses? I've spent hours extracting all the libs and defs and sticking everything in the correct directories.... I've even managed to compile one of the demos (MILLE), but when I try to exec it I the system just hangs. When I hit ctrl-c my window goes away. I'm at the point of re-formatting all the TOP disks--they just don't seem to be worth the frustration! There is 1 Reply. #: 13950 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jan-92 00:47:20 Sb: #13843-TOP curses Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, TOPS ncurses causes my system to die the death of 1000 crashes as well. I'm just using Microware's termcap library for now. Seems safer. Bud #: 13844 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 12:51:38 Sb: #dir problems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all This really doesn't make any sense! I put a new 'dir' command in my CMDS directory and renamed the old one "dir.mw". Now I find that sometimes I get the new one, sometimes the old one. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to this. I've checked my startup and .login files to make sure neither is doing a load. Also did a check of all the other modules in CMDS to make sure that none of them had DIR merged with it. Anyone have any other ideas of why this might be happening? There is 1 Reply. #: 13850 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 17:48:46 Sb: #13844-#dir problems Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob - No clues (other than merged versions..... Why not try patching the modulename to something like 'MWd' and see if it still happens. If not, then the DIR module is getting into memory somehow.. Oh - how about this: does anything in your startup process use or load dir? If so, is the STICKY bit set? If yes, then it sits in memory anyway until it's thrown out by memory allocation routines that need the space for something else. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 13854 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 18:48:13 Sb: #13850-#dir problems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) I can now duplicate the problem at will. It seems that the MW dir is in the ROMs right between format and copy. On a cold start dir DOES NOT appear in the modules directory. However, after a 'break' or if I reset the computer by pressing 'reset' quickly, or after the computer re-boots itself becuase of a system crash the dir DOES appear. However, if I cold start or hold 'reset' for a full second it doesn't. I checked with debug and dir is in the ROM (even when it doesn't show up). But for some reason it hasn't been mapped it. I've solved the problem by setting the revison byte of my new dir to 2 and then doing a 'load dir' in my startup. That way it'll always be loaded in. But I sure don't understand why it is ignored in the ROM sometimes.... Maybe a flakey ROM? How about some of you hardware experts? There is 1 Reply. #: 13860 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 23:27:55 Sb: #13854-#dir problems Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Dunno... I've not noticed if the ROM commands are being loaded sometimes (ie: if the ROMs are being ignored sometimes). Will check. There is 1 Reply. #: 13869 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Jan-92 12:52:27 Sb: #13860-dir problems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, the funny thing about this is that ONLY dir is being ignored on the ROMs, and it is right in the middle, between format and copy. Don't make no sense here! #: 13898 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Jan-92 01:46:11 Sb: MM/1 Windio Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin... I've got a bunch of questions to ask ya about the MM/1 and its windowing system. Here's the story: I started out using windio #17. Noticed the bell wouldn't work, but I thought it was that darn monitor cable again. Trying to start mode 8 or 9 windows crashed the machine. I wrote some graphic demos in C and found other people using windio #22 had problems running them. In my demos I changed screen type by DWEnding the current screen and immediately DWSetting the same window to the mode I wanted. (I switched to #22 about this time to find out what the trouble was). I found that when changing window type by this method, you have to either do a Select or quickly flip through your windows with the function keys to get the new window to display properly. Sometimes it works without all that, though, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the machine crashes. Why should I have to Select a window I'm already in? I used this method on Level II windows all the time with no problems. Windio #17 doesn't complain, it just won't open mode 8 or 9 windows without crashing the machine. You got any ideas? Does #22 have a bug? Kinda seems like it might... Also, I've been experimenting to find the real text and graphic resolutions of all the screen types - seems every piece of documentation I've seen gives different numbers. Are these correct: Type00 - 80x26 - 640x208 Type01 - 80x26 - 640x208 Type02 - 80x52 - 640x416 Type03 - 40x26 - 320x208 Type04 - 40x26 - 320x208 Type05 - 40x52 - 320x416 Type06 - 90x30 - 720x240 Type07 - 90x60 - 720x480 Type08 - 45x30 - 360x240 Type09 - 45x60 - 360x480 Any others we should know about? #: 13953 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jan-92 08:43:41 Sb: Ultra-Science Windows Fm: TONY ELLIOTT 71645,1367 To: All Does anyone here have any experience with Ultra-Science's Windowing software? I'm interested in actual performance in a multi-user environment (5-10 users) on a 68020 system. Does it use much overhead? Is it quick and pratical on Ascii terminals usch as the Qume QVT-101? I'd appreciate any user comments. #: 13958 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jan-92 18:49:44 Sb: #13950-TOP curses Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Hopefully someone will have time to have a look at TOPs ncurses and figure out the problem. I think it is more with the os9lib than with ncurses... but who knows! On the other hand, with the size of those routines it might be better and safer to stick to termcap.... #: 13973 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Jan-92 12:57:17 Sb: #13953-Ultra-Science Windows Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: TONY ELLIOTT 71645,1367 (X) Tony - do you mean the "Screens" program, for terminals, ported from Unix? If so, those that use it tell me they like it. Or do you mean "G-Windows", which requires a graphics card? #: 14005 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jan-92 09:33:08 Sb: Ultra-Science Windows Fm: TONY ELLIOTT 71645,1367 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres 76703,4227 (X) Yes, I believe I mean 'Screens'. We are using terminals (mostly non-graphics). So, I've ordered it and I let you know how I like it. While I have you... I am looking for a C Library for an older version of Sculptor. Apparently, when I wasn't looking, the organization which owned Sculptor rights in the US underwent some sort of change. I'm not sure where to go, now, to find what I need. I believe the last version we upgraded to was 1.6:8, but I'll have to check that. We are upgrading some of our in house CAD stuff and it would help to find a compatable library rather than to have to write it all. I appreciate any guidance that might be out there in this regard. I'm also in the market for a used 68020 board such as Hazelwoods board or would also consider Frank's uniquad. Has anyone outgrown such and want to let one go? #: 14009 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jan-92 11:31:42 Sb: #MB & syscall Fm: William Phelps 75100,265 To: ALL Could someone please tell me the format of the register structure used with syscall in OSK 2.4? I figured out the d0-d7,a0-a4 part, but how are other registers (like the ccr) passed? William There is 1 Reply. #: 14010 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jan-92 12:48:12 Sb: #14009-#MB & syscall Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: William Phelps 75100,265 (X) As you've found out, it's only... TYPE stack = d0,d1,d2,d3,d4,d5,d6,d7,a0,a1,a2,a3,a4:INTEGER DIM reg:stack No need for ccr, as the carry bit error flag will be picked up by Basic itself on return from syscall, and pick out any error code from d1. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14014 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jan-92 21:36:37 Sb: #14010-#MB & syscall Fm: William Phelps 75100,265 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Thanks for the information, but does that mean I have to use ON ERROR GOTO to do my own error trapping? I'd like to keep GOTO's to a minimum. William There is 1 Reply. #: 14022 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jan-92 11:38:00 Sb: #14014-MB & syscall Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: William Phelps 75100,265 (X) Yes, you have to use ON ERROR statements, which sometimes I like, sometimes I don't :-) On the other hand, we don't have to check for errors, which is very nice. I believe one Syscall's version used to be in Lib 12 here... it could be modified to return the error separately. #: 14111 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jan-92 20:03:52 Sb: #Mshell Discount? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: all A few weeks ago a few people mentioned Microware's new "Mshell," and how great it would be to have except that the price was out of the reach of most hacker types (myself included). Here's a marketing suggestion for Microware: In recognition of the benefits of having an avid (evangelical?) group of users spreading the word about their products, run a limited time special offer to users of the Compuserve and Delphi OS-9 forums. Set it up so that if you mention the 'the Compuserve/Delphi special' you would get a discount on one copy of Mshell. I don't think that this would affect their commercial sales much, how many of their commercial accounts are on here? In my opinion, a selling price of $100.00 would be reasonable. Thoughts, comments? -J There are 2 Replies. #: 14115 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jan-92 19:19:48 Sb: #14111-Mshell Discount? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 My personal feeling is that mshell should become a part of standard OSK system. The current shell is about brain dead, and badly needs replacement. Mshell is a wonderful addition and should be seen as part of standard distribution for enhancing user productivity. mshell will sell the OS. Marketing it separately keeps the majority of users in the dark about realizing that there is a good shell. A good normal distribution shell is a plus. For those who want an upgrade of shell only, it should be made as available as possible to help get OSK of the launching pad with acceptance. #: 14117 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 01:31:36 Sb: #14111-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 Your idea sounds great.....but I doubt that it will happen. I checked on the prices of both the latest version of the C Compiler, and also MW's Lint program (well, that wasn't the name they used, but it sure does SOUND like a lint program). Both of them were $850, and they would NOT budge one red cent from that price. The OSK marketplace is full of commercial users, not us home computer users, from what I'm told, and they price their programs on the basis of what they will sell for in the commercial marketplace. As the OSK marketplace right now has between 5,000 and 10,000 systems, and us 68070/68000 new marketplace probably does not exceed about 250 (for all TC70, MM/1 and System IV systems sold), our 'voice' will be little heard in Des Moines. If our 'new age' machines ever hit the 1-2,000 sales, then we might start having a slightly larger say in pricing of MW stuff. Until the, regretably, we'll be the little fly buzzing around the head of MW. I'm not putting us down, mind you, be we gotta look at this marketplace realistically. jim #: 14112 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jan-92 20:18:03 Sb: #MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: ALL Just thought I'd tell everyone that I got my MM/1 I/O board today. By the way, my serial number is 120848. I've installed it and formatted my 32 meg Seagate (the Quantum LPS105 hasn't been delivered yet). Now I've got to play or rather work with the computer to test everything out. Everything seems to be working perfectly so far. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 14123 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 08:55:20 Sb: #14112-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) Erniyre,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re, #: 14132 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 20:51:21 Sb: #14123-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Jim, I received my MM/1 last August. No, I didn't receive the update disks with the I/O board. I have downloaded newer drivers from the Ocean BBS and the latest driver update from dl12 here. I noticed the mask number on the scsi chip is 08. I was able to get the Seagate formatted with the new drivers from the Ocean BBS and the hard drive is pretty fast (seems to be about as fast as the IDE drive on my 386). I talked to Paul today and he said the update disks should be going out soon. I think he said Mark G. had the master disks now. He also said he received the Quantum drives today and just finished printing a new catalog. I've put about 4 megs on the hard drive (a ST138) and tried FHL's hard disk backup program fbu. Using the command line: fbu -$=dir-ur -b=1024k -d=/d1 itt took 6 minutes and 28 seconds to complete the backup to previously formatted diskks. And this is using a relatively slow hard drive and without the newest scsi drivers. All in all, not too bad. Got ot go play some more. Type at you later. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 14155 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Feb-92 10:21:54 Sb: #14132-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 You're one up on me, Ernie. The MM/1 arrived early last week (minus the I/O board at my request) and I quick ordered a Connor 120 meg HD, 2 megs of memory and a keyboard. All that stuff showed up by this past Friday. Friday evening Mark Griffith and I put the thing together (well ..... I did watch!) and it works. A couple of problems did crop up. The keyboard I ordered from Microlab in MI appears to be DOA. I'll check it out when I get back to the office. Otherwise, it's RMA-city for that puppy. Like many others, I'm anxiously awaiting my I/O board. From first impressions, it sure looks as if it will be worth the wait. Steve #: 14134 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 21:16:14 Sb: #14117-#Mshell Discount? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Lint? The only lint for OS-9 that I know of is a port of Gimpel's Generic Lint, and I thought someone other than Microware sold it. Alas, there is sort of a Catch 22 operating--more folks would buy it if it cost less. Gee, it would cost less if more people bought it. If I knew how to overcome the impasse, I'd probably be a lot richer. (Opinions expressed here are solely those of the poster.) There is 1 Reply. #: 14138 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 22:30:09 Sb: #14134-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) lint--> it was a lint type of program... a C Source Debugger that Microware is offering for $850. Shucks, if they were asking $400 for it, I'd consider it....but I can do my own debugging of C routines, and a lot of it, for $850 (grin) jim #: 14137 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 22:13:35 Sb: #14111-Mshell Discount? Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 Have you looked at the TOP shell. I will soon be in a position to support it properly, fix bugs, etc. - Carl #: 14135 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 21:22:38 Sb: #14127-arrays in 'C' Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) It's true for the 680x0, x < 2 or == 7. The reason is that OS-9 wants to use position-independent and re-entrant code, and also that the compiler can't look into the future and tell how much data space will be linked together to make a finished program. It therefore generates code presuming that the 68K base plus signed 16-bit offset will suffice to access a variable by name, unless you use the "remote" storage class, which will cause it to use a rather longer (but sufficient to access anything anywhere) code sequence to get to the variable. (The 680x0, x >= 2 and x != 7, have addressing modes that avoid the limitation, so it's not as big a deal for those processors, though there is a definite code savings for the 16-bit offset vs. 32-bit offset addressing modes, of course!) #: 14136 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 21:30:34 Sb: #New to OS9,Need Power Fm: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 To: ALL Not Being an avid os9 user (IBM or Msdos 5 is much friendlier, in my opinion) I am forced to put up with os9 innability to do much of anything from an OS standpoint. Does anyone Know where I can find such utilities as: TREE (or something like it), a NORTON COMMANDER like util, WHEREIS or FILEFIND, and lastly, is there any way I can make the prompt show the current directory (yes, like DOS) ? Im running OS9 2.2 68k from Micoware. How about a disk fix program that marks bad sectors out of the allocation table or am I dreaming ? I just read about MSHELL. What is that ? Being new to os9 is a pain. My system at home (286) cranks and thats what I want to do with this box but Im a little short on utilities. Anyone have a few suggestions? Thanks, James. There are 3 Replies. #: 14141 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Jan-92 11:43:58 Sb: #14136-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 James - ANY time you step into a new environment it appears to be hostile and barren... this is mostly a) extreme familiarity with your previous environment and b) lack of knowledge about where to get the utils & tools for the new environment. With the possible exception of MS-DOS's new shell, I think most folks would find bare bones DOS a pretty ugly option as well. Most of my background with OS9 was with the 6809 version, so that may be of limited use to you. The good news is that most folks in the os9 domain post SOURCES in their AR files (our equivalent of .ZIP files - you'll need AR68.BIN to bust them up), and for the most part these sources will port fairly easily to 68K boxes. On a file finder, look at the FILES.AR source in DL9. Should port to OSK without too much of a problem. Regarding the other stuff, perhaps some of the more active 68K folks will chime in. Pete #: 14142 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Jan-92 16:40:52 Sb: #14136-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 James, Having introduced many MS-DOS users to OS9, I think I can appreciate your dilemma. When people go from 'half an operating system' to an operating system as powerful as OS9, they are often quite bewildered. I think you'll find that the people on this forumn are friendly and helpful but they do expect you to do some of your own homework. I suggest you first study the OSK manual particularly those sections pertaining to the shell and format. Then go through library 12 and pull the TOP index. Many of the utilities you may need are there - no charge - PD stuff and pretty good. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO #: 14146 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Feb-92 09:21:39 Sb: #14136-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 Want to find a filename anywhere on your disk? type: dir -arsu /dd ! grep Want to list all your directories? type: dir -n /dd If you want to look at a disk other than your default disk, just type the disk name instead of /dd. Want to see what your data directory is? type: pd The stock shell won't prompt you with the current data path, but the optional MSHELL (big bucks from Microware) might. I'm not sure about your disk checker program. I have to use MSDOS at work (we run PS/2's) and think OS-9 is rather easier to deal with. bud #: 14139 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Jan-92 06:33:05 Sb: Floppy Driver Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All To All MM/1 Owners: I put the wrong floppy driver module in the MM/1 Update archives. That driver will not work with PCF. I have uploaded a new driver by itself in Library 12. As soon as it is enabled, please download it. Sorry for any problems my mistake may have caused. Mark #: 14151 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Feb-92 00:29:58 Sb: BASIC's INKEY Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: all Can anyone advise me on the use of INKEY in BASIC (on the 68000 that is)? The format as my manuals reads is INKEY(#) ant that is just about the same as the FILSIZ command. WHen I try to run INKEY from path 0 (the keyboard) I invariably come up with an error 208. I can run it from another path such as a disk file but what would be the point? All I want to do is the same as the INKEY under BASIC09 or even old DECBasic. Was trying to write a quick and nasty DISPLAY command for my new TC70 but it looks as if I will really have to polish up my C if I cannot get BASIC's INKEY to work from the keyboard. Looking back I find I lie a bit - the battle with INKEY is more in the area of a key converter so I can read the output from the arrow keys. Then I want to do the dislay. #: 14152 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Feb-92 01:52:58 Sb: MM/1 Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: all MM/1 for sale - includes the following : System unit w/1MB of RAM in 'baby' AT case (IMS) 1 TEAC and 1 FUJITSU 3.5" 1.2M floppy drives 1 QUANTUM LP105S SCSI drive (new, installed - waiting on I/O board) 1 Monterey 101 key keyboard - your choice of 'click' or 'soft' styles 1 Mouse Systems ergonomic Trackball (brand new in box) Complete set of Microware OS-9 v.2.4 manuals Signetics 68070 and VSC manuals All included IMS documentation and software - 'C', BASIC, Oddjob, etc. Current delivery position for I/O board and serial port(s) System has very LOW hours and delivery of I/O board will depend on when IMS ships to me. $1275 OBO Leave E-Mail - 'mail' instead of 'reply'ing to this message. ...Jim /exit Press !> #: 14159 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Feb-92 17:04:48 Sb: #14151-BASIC's INKEY Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 The way INKEY works (at least on the MM/1's version of BASIC) is that it returns a value if there is something in the keyboard buffer. You then have to use GET to find out what it is. Does this help any? It's completely different from BASIC-09. You have to do something like this: a=inkey(#) if a then get response; endif Hope this helps. --Colin #: 14167 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 00:15:16 Sb: #14151-BASIC's INKEY Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 Hi Bob, Normally, INKEY returns the number of characters waiting (using the SS_Ready GetStatus call). So you might say something like... DIM k:STRING[1] IF INKEY(#0) <> 0 THEN GET #0,k ENDIF But the stock TC70 video driver doesn't support SS_Ready (weird! but should be easy for them to fix), so you get the error 208 (unimplemented stat call) instead. There's no easy way around that without using a second process to sit and read the keyboard for you. However, if your desired program just needs to get one key at a time, and doesn't mind waiting for it (instead of actually polling for a key), then you can just: DIM k:STRING[1] GET #0,k And/or you could set up a signal (SS_SSig) to let you know when a key is hit. I hope one of these ideas will do what you need, until you get another driver setup. best - kevin #: 14170 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 13:21:02 Sb: #14146-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 Yes, mshell does support several varieties of prompts, including current data directory, date, time, user, id, shell number, directory stack level .. #: 14177 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 19:55:33 Sb: #14136-#New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 Windsor Systems (and Delmar as well) sells a group of utilities called the "Pan Utilities" that have most of the things that you are looking for like 'tree,' 'whereis,' and 'filefind' (last two are really the same program), and a bunch of other useful utilities. A big plus is that you get the C SOURCE as well so you can fix things that are broke or that you don't like. I you get these, make sure that you get the version that has the 'fixes from JBM' as we fixed some problem/bugs/annoyances. I send in the changed source but have no idea if they're distributing our fixes. I don't have their phone number handy here at home, email me if you're interested and I'll get it to you later. -J There is 1 Reply. #: 14193 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Feb-92 13:37:19 Sb: #14177-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) As an aside ... much of the public domain software I've tried (half?) produces bus trap errors on memory managed (protected) machines, due to unitialized pointers or whatever. The version of "whereis" that I have is an example. #: 14172 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 16:53:13 Sb: #14155-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Where did you get your memory? Did you find a good deal? I haven't even started to check into that yet. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 14179 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 21:15:25 Sb: #14172-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, I picked Hard Drive International for the memory. Lemme grab the sheet ... ME 1x8 - 80 1MB SIMM module 80 ns $39.00 each (they actually shipped 70 ns), and $10 for shipping via FE. At $88 total, I figure I'm still ahead. Tried to get a Quantum 105 meg drive, but they are back ordered 'till April. Second choice was a Maxtor .... but also out of stock. Finally settled on a Connor CP30100 120 meg 19 ms 3.5 1" drive for $369 from Data Storage MArketing, Inc. (They have the yellow ad around page 35 in Shopper every month.). The Focus Keyboard I bought didn't work. Thought it was DOA, but works fine in the XT and AT's at the office, so I'm guessing that it's another one that isn't compatable with the MM/1. (Northgate's cause problems as well.) I have a repacement Chicony due in. Hope I do better with that. Steve #: 14178 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 20:07:06 Sb: #14155-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, it sure was worth the wait. My Quantum 105 hasn't arrived yet but the Seagate I have connected is pretty fast. I don't think it's quite fast enough initializing because I sometimes don't get a successful boot. The problem is most noticable with the newest drivers using rbvccs. Using the rbsccs driver that Paul sent me I get more consistent boots. I'm happy with the machine and have been playing with it quite a bit. Hopefully the new hard drive will solve the occasional boot problem. By the way, the rb33c93a on my I/O board has mask #8 and I've told Paul about that. Ernie. There are 2 Replies. #: 14181 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 21:42:13 Sb: #14178-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) Yeah .... I had wanted the Quantum, but seems I waited too long. Word from several sources I tried said that Quantum is sending everything they have to Apple leaving them out in the cold. They have no choice but to recommend other manufacturers. I opted for a 120 meg Connor. Mark tells me to expect no problems with that pick. I sure wish IMS would have a list of 'known to (not) work) hardware. Sure would save on the telephone calls to Paul's answering machine! If folks want to leave a note here to me letting us know what success and/or failures they've had, I'd be happy to compile a file. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14203 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 18:31:12 Sb: #14181-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I talked to Paul late last week and he said he had received some hard drives. I believe he said some of them were Quantums. He did say that most of the suppliers he had called had Quantums on backorder because Apple was buying all they could. I hope he got one for me. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 14206 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 21:11:27 Sb: #14203-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) I opted to piece my system together myself, Ernie. Nothing against Paul and crew ... but I like doing my own sourcing of equipment. Looks like it paid off too! The new keyboard arrived today and works just dandy. It's a Chicony KB5191. Nothing special .... I don't know if I'd want to type my novel on it, but for $28 bucks, I can't gripe. If you're interested, I picked it up from an outfit out of the Shopper ... Ralin Wholesalers, Inc. I'm not planning on doing much with the box until the I/O board arrives, but I'll keep you posted. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14212 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Feb-92 18:13:05 Sb: #14206-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 I'm using a Chicony KB5161 I got several years ago to use with the Puppo interface on the CoCo. I have a Northgate OmniKey Ultra I'd love to use on thM/1 but it won't work. I haven't tried the fix to get it to functionbecause I have the Chicony. I've been reading the messages on Delphi about the new drivers. I tried to format a disk using the newest drivers with sct=33 and t0s=33. Got error 247. Changing to sct=31 and t0s=31 got a successful format. Using the older rbsccs sct and t0s of 33 works fine. Guess I'll leave Mark a message about that. Ernie. #: 14200 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 06:18:40 Sb: #14178-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) >I don't think it's quite fast enough initializing because sometimes I >don't get a successful boot. The problem is Use MODED to change the "coldstart retry count" to a higher number, maybe 50, and you should have no more problems. Don't use the driver you got from Paul, use the one in the update. If you have a mask number 8 on the SCSI controller and it actually works, you are a lucky camper. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14204 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 18:40:16 Sb: #14200-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) I've changed the coldstart retry count several times now. It is now at 150 and the machine boots from cold start every time now. Still won't boot from a RESET reliably though. The SCSI chip has the following markings on it: WD33C93A 00-08 9022 069019200102 PROTO I figure the date code is 9022 and the mask is #8. Does the PROTO mean it's a prototype? Doesn't matter as long as it works. By the way, I asked Paul for the demo you were running in Atlanta. He said he'd put it on my hard drive before he shipped it. Ernie. #: 14174 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 19:55:02 Sb: #14115-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) I can see users wanting a 'basic' shell for use in embedded applications where you don't need or want a 'full featured' shell and since OSK is targeted towards this marketplace.... Perhaps include BOTH shells, one for interactive development and one for imbedding in the final (probably ROMed) system. -J #: 14198 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 01:21:53 Sb: #14138-Mshell Discount? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 ( I don't remember if I poster this or not. If so, sorry for the duplication ) Jim, The C Source Debugger is much more and much different than a Lint. From what I understand it allows you to run you compiled C program much like debug, but loads in you actual C source too. You then can step thru it, set break points, etc. like debug. The benifit is that you get to see which line of C your are executing. I can see a program like that comming in real handy to debug my source. Lint, on the other hand, is available from Gimpel Software for $400 to $500 in what they call 'shrouded' C source. To get Gimpel's number look in DDJ or the C user's journal. If you want more info on Generic-Lint, lemme know. Mike #: 14176 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 19:55:17 Sb: #14117-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) I doubt that it will happen either but I doesn't hurt (much) to make the suggestion. I wonder how many of MW's industrial customers are even on Compuserve or Delphi or are even aware that they exist? -J #: 14175 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 19:55:10 Sb: #14137-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Please let us know when it is available with support. I don't have time right now to risk on something that might not work exactly right! -J There is 1 Reply. #: 14183 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 21:47:25 Sb: #14175-Mshell Discount? Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Have you tried it at all? I run it all the time. Haven't used shell in perhaps a year. But there were a couple little things - tmode in a script didn't turn pause off, the first line after a '#' in a script gets eaten, etc. But actually real solid. Anyway, I just compiled it for the first time and it runs but those things aren't fixed. Over the next week or so I will try to track them down and then put a version up here for all to wail upon. Then I will fix the bugs found there, and so on. - Carl #: 14194 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Feb-92 14:46:57 Sb: OSK bus traps Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: 72176,3565 (X) I felt guilty about the last remark on bus trap errors. I should put up or shutup so to speak. I find the problem in line 145 of my version of whereis.c, which reads as follows: if( s = index( s, '"' ) ) *s = '\0'; It should be changed to: if( s = index( as, '"' ) ) *s = '\0'; The value of "s" gets set to zero two lines earlier by an unsuccessful index function. The memory management objects to the access to address 0 in line 145, and causes a bus trap error. Nicely enough, the value of "s" was saved earlier in "as", for proper use later, and can also be used here in line 145, thus "s" is changed to "as" in line 145. The microware source level debugger (srcdbg) helps greatly in tracking these problems, and running programs under memory management with srcdbg sure makes these problems easier to find. #: 14195 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Feb-92 20:08:44 Sb: #printers and mm/1's Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: anyone HELP, I have a nice new Epson LQ-570 printer hooked up to my MM/1, all I can get it to do is print one character of garbage, the the printing process goes to sleep, never to awaken again.... its a hell of a time to take a NAP!?!?! any deep thoughts? btw. I've tried using both the stock sc68230 driver, Bob van der Poel's sc68230 driver, both drivers that came in the MM1update.ar pack, (altho I haven't tried using more that 1 driver at a time yet... I'll do that next).. oh, and FWIW. yes, I used the right /p for any given driver... (well most of the time anyway)... any help would be, um, helpful... (I have to have a report typed (and printed) by Fri.) btw. for anyone who is thinking about buying a printer, the Epson LQ-570 sure is neat, does a bunch of fonts, has scalable fonts, 24 pin 360x360 dpi, 8k buffer, makes coffee, etc.. if only it would PRINT! well I sapose ya cant have everything, but who ever heard of a printer that wont print? whats the point? Ken Gideon There are 2 Replies. #: 14201 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 06:18:44 Sb: #14195-#printers and mm/1's Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken, How long a cable are you using? Anything more than about 6 or 8 feet, depending upon the printer, does not work very well or at all on the MM/1 printer ports. Try a shorter cable and see what it does. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14214 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Feb-92 19:32:54 Sb: #14201-printers and mm/1's Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) hey, that could be it, I'm using a 10' cable at the moment, I'll try a 6' foot cable... but gee, it cant be that simple....nothing ever is... Ken #: 14202 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 08:58:35 Sb: #14195-printers and mm/1's Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken - Have you tried dragging it to a friend's house and hanging it off of a PC clone? That might clear or finger the printer. Pete #: 14196 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Feb-92 23:40:53 Sb: #Select Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling, 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, Is there a way to select the window a program is going to run in? You helped me out some time ago to do this on the coco; but now I want to do the same thing on the MM/1. I want to have a line like: (display 1b 21 ; /dd/games/mygame) <>>>/w so that the program starts in a new window and that window is displayed. Also, it'd be nice to return to the calling window when 'mygame' is finished. Thanks There is 1 Reply. #: 14210 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Feb-92 05:33:43 Sb: #14196-Select Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Hi Bob, Welllll :-), that's interesting. From a program, it's easy to do the 1B21 select, as the system will store away its input preference. Doing it from a command line turns out to be slightly more difficult... Partly because I check only for standard output's preference (I just changed this, thanks for the thought!), and that was because the OSK shell lacks the 6809 version's ">>/w" and have it pop to that window. The next line in a script file could be to winsel the original window.. executed when the program dies, of course. Let me know what happens. Thanks!! - kevin #: 14207 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 21:51:39 Sb: MM/1 Update Module Fix Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All To all MM/1 owners with the module update: Apparently a mistake was made in making the update archive and the wrong descriptors were included. A new set of descriptors are being made up now, but until then you should be able to get your new drivers working by changing one vale using the DMODE utility supplied in the archive. Use DMODE to change the rate byte to $30 for any high density disk except the hpcx IBM disk descriptors and $10 for all double (or low) density disks. This should correct the problem. Let me know if you still hahve trouble, Mark #: 14213 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Feb-92 18:18:21 Sb: MM/1 Update Module Fix Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, I was going to leave you a message about the problem I was having with the newest drivers. However, I just read msg. 14207 so I'll make the needed changes with dmode. Thanks for the support. Ernie. Press !> #: 14216 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 09:59:06 Sb: #14198-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Thanks, Mike, for the explanation of the C Source Debugger. The book I have on it made it sound like quite a program, but was a little terse. Sounds like a great program; but for $850, I can do a heck of a lot of debugging on my own. :-) jim #: 14217 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 10:03:47 Sb: #14198-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Generic Lint--> Yes, Mike, if you have or know where I could get a generic flavor of lint that is cheaper than the $400-$500 range from Gimpel, please let me know. Would seem like as popular as lint apparently is, that there'd be a pd version somewhere that would do some checking of the code. jim There is 1 Reply. #: 14220 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 21:25:12 Sb: #14217-#Mshell Discount? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 Thing is that writing a lint program entails writing most of an optimizing C compiler--everything except the code generation part--since the data flow analysis one winds up doing is just what an optimizer wants to see to get rid of the apparently unnecessary calculations that lint gripes about as potential bugs! So...if someone has the urge to do it, go for it. It wouldn't take that much added effort to go ahead and write a C compiler. There is 1 Reply. #: 14224 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 11:18:53 Sb: #14220-Mshell Discount? Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: James Jones 76257,562 I've never used lint, but something I have never understood is why it exists at all. Why have a separate program that is essentially, as you stated, a compiler minus the code generation parts? Why not just have a compiler with a "don't generate code option"? This has always puzzled me. #: 14218 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 18:09:55 Sb: MM/1 formatting Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, I tried changing the rates=$30 but got the same results. Error 247 until I dmoded sct and t0s=31. Then formats went fine. Thought you'dlike to know. Ernie. #: 14219 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 21:21:19 Sb: #14212-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 I got a relatively inexpensive Honeywell keyboard from Midwest Micro Peripherals. People who have seen it have complained about the feel and about the on-keyboard artificial "click" sound it generates (which I have turned on), but it had the EXTREMELY important feature of being able to treat the key just left of the "A" as CTRL, which feature I think I can attribute what little grip on sanity I have left to. :-) #: 14221 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 00:17:56 Sb: #14210-#Select Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Glad I made the suggestion . Uh, I tried the little program, but no luck. Maybe it's the window version I'm running (#30), but it does nothing. Actaully, even from the command line a "display 1b 21 >/wx" just hangs things up until ctrl-c is hit. Certainly doesn't switch windows. This is not a big deal right now (but it would be nice for a little menu program I'd writing so my kids can play games....). But yes, it should be avail on the production model. There is 1 Reply. #: 14223 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 06:07:38 Sb: #14221-Select Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 Bob - when you do the "display 1b21 >/wx", is there a shell on /wx? Or another program waiting on input? Remember, the file manager locks out the device in that case (shell++ got around that by waiting on a key signal instead... another case where we need a new osk shell :-). kev #: 14226 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 14:13:58 Sb: MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: all welp, I tried a 6' cable like Mark suggested, and it helpped, but now all I get is a bunch of garbage... and things still go to sleep and never wake up again, and they dont die when you try to kill them either... anybody got any really great IDEAS? like witch xmode param's should be set to what? any Ideas on how to get a program to let go of /p so I can try changeing xmode things and try again? its a bit of a hassle to have to reboot to try something different... of well Ken. Press !> #: 14228 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 18:33:31 Sb: #14220-#Mshell Discount? Fm: John Semler 70324,633 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) An ANSI compatible C Compiler would be nicer! Is Microware the only vendor of C Compilers for the 68000 market? John Semler There are 2 Replies. #: 14232 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 21:39:42 Sb: #14228-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: John Semler 70324,633 (X) I've only heard of the Gnu C compiler for as an alternative for OSK, but have never used it and would sure appreciate any comments on it. There are 2 Replies. #: 14246 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 19:16:15 Sb: #14232-Mshell Discount? Fm: John Semler 70324,633 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) Never used Gnu C for OSK but do have a political comment! I believe a bad aspect of distributing major piece of software like Gnu C for free is it stifles the market place. May be good for the home computer users but perhaps the commercial users will suffer because of FSF (lack of support, outdated technology, and etc). #: 14369 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Feb-92 20:43:51 Sb: #14232-#Mshell Discount? Fm: John Semler 70324,633 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) I downloaded both gpp (C++ compiler) and gcc (ANSI C) from Delphi and I can say that I am very impressed! Although I only had these compilers for the last 48 hours, I believe I will be using them from now on. Also gcc appears to generate tighter code than Microware C (Don't forget to throw on the optimizer using the -O option!). Installing gpp was a little troublesome. The routine perror() and _flsbuf() were missing from the C++ library. Also renamed libgpp.l to gpp.l (gpp.l looks like a subset of libgpp.l). Currently employing the gpp C++ compiler to implement computer science concepts encountered in my studies this semester! I'll leave a message on Delphi explaining the quirks that I have found so far. Someone should upload a copy to CIS. These are great compilers as far as I can see. John Semler There is 1 Reply. #: 14378 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Feb-92 13:19:29 Sb: #14369-Mshell Discount? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: John Semler 70324,633 (X) For folks with Internet ftp access, the hermit.cs.wisc.edu machine has the OSK Gnu C compiler also. #: 14261 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 09:55:36 Sb: #14228-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: John Semler 70324,633 (X) Up on Delphi, there is a C Compiler called the GCC Compiler. I've only used it a couple of times, but, according to the extensive help file included in the command, it supports the ANSI standard, including trigraphs, and has many features the stock MW C Compiler does not have. The modules, compressed, are about 650,000 bytes -- the largest module being over 425,000 bytes long. jim Sutemeier There are 2 Replies. #: 14310 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 22:27:30 Sb: #14261-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Yes, it's my understanding that GCC is in fact the Gnu C Compiler. Was installation a big deal for GCC or not? There is 1 Reply. #: 14313 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Feb-92 09:56:38 Sb: #14310-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) >Was installation a big deal for GCC or not? Had no problem installing it, and it's fairly easy to use. Wish the dox file that came with it had the help screen in it, though. The dox are lacking in what-all this compiler can do, and the only true help is the '-?'. jim Sutemeier #: 14327 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 17:50:33 Sb: #14261-#Mshell Discount? Fm: John Semler 70324,633 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) The GCC compiler deal sounds good! How do I log on to Delphi? There is 1 Reply. #: 14335 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Feb-92 14:34:14 Sb: #14327-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: John Semler 70324,633 (X) Delphi--> call voice 1-800-695-4005...... #: 14231 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 20:14:29 Sb: #14224-Mshell Discount? Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill - Lint is really a compiler superset, and is VERY picky. If you had to live with a compiler as nasty as Lint all the time, you'd go nuts. Pete #: 14236 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 23:00:47 Sb: #14224-Mshell Discount? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) The claim made by the folks who originally did lint was that the compiler shouldn't bother to tell you about questionable constructs, but should do what it's told and generate code for it even if it looks like a construct that may be bogus (semantically bogus, e.g. use a variable that may not have been set). OTOH, these days people expect compilers to do the kind of flow analysis lint does, though for other reasons, and ANSI prototypes allow some of the error checking that lint did, so there's less of an argument for a separate lint program. #: 14230 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 19:36:15 Sb: #14226-#MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) welp, did some more playing, the epson works fine on my cocoIII, got the xmode param's from the coco, and copyed them onto the mm/1. still no go... welp then I took the DMP110 from my coco and stuck it on the MM/1... used both sc68230 drivers (one at a time :-) and the dmp110 wouldn't print... so just witch printers do work with the MM/1???? bye Ken. There are 2 Replies. #: 14241 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 11:01:55 Sb: #14230-MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken, I'm having no problems with my Okidata 82a. Works like a champ. Steve #: 14247 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 21:27:50 Sb: #14230-MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) I'm using a DMP-430 with a long (10 or 12 ft) cable on my MM/1 - no problems. Maybe the following will help - [xmode /p] noupc nobsb bsl noecho lf null=0 nopause pag=66 bsp=08 del=18 eor=0D eof=1B reprint=04 dup=01 psc=17 abort=03 quit=05 bse=08 bell=07 type=00 baud=50 xon=11 xoff=13 tabc=09 tabs=4 [ident -qm scp68230] scp68230 owner 0.2 edition #5 good crc - E9A859 [ident -qm p] p owner 0.2 edition #5 good crc - 60BAFC JohnW #: 14277 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 06:19:18 Sb: #14226-#MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken, If you are getting garbage to the printer, it is possible that the printer port is bad or the little cable from the port to the DB-25 connector is bad. Either one is not easy to test for. About the only solution I can think of is to send the I/O board and the cables to me and I'll check it out. If you can find a person close by with an MM/1 and a printer that works, it would help eliminate some things. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14287 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 21:11:01 Sb: #14277-#MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) NO!!! I just got my I/O board! Im not just gonna give it up! its mine ! I waited long enough for it! you cant have it! but for what its worth, I got it to print... I swapped the p & p1 cable/connecter things.... and put jumpers on P5 (I think) the one for LF's (does that turn LF's off or on? it doesn't say in the docs)...and I started using the 3meg_init.... I dont know (or care) witch of those 3 things did the trick... but hey it works fine now... also, anybody know the $hex value of ESC? thanx for all the help everybody was... ---me There are 2 Replies. #: 14293 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 01:13:46 Sb: #14287-MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) ESC is Hex 1b decimal 27. #: 14300 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 08:54:52 Sb: #14287-MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken - ESC = $1b Pete #: 14234 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 22:35:02 Sb: #13973-#Ultra-Science Windows Fm: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) I have been working on 'screens' from TOP without much luck. Do you know someone who is running it on a tc70? I also want to get KD Windows but I understand Frank Hogg still needs to talk to you. Just got my tomcat a couple of weeks ago and I have had alot of trouble getting started. The docs are more reference not step by step tutorial. There is 1 Reply. #: 14262 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 10:05:31 Sb: #14234-Ultra-Science Windows Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 I tried to get screens to work on my TC70 with no luck whatsoever. (???) If you have any luck, please let me know what you did to get it working. On another note, are you using the stock uq37c65, or did you switch over to the beta version?? jim Sutemeier #: 14238 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 06:55:16 Sb: #14219-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) James, I may have to call Midwest and order one of those keyboards. One of the reasons I like the Northgate keyboard is because of the ability to remap the keys. I have a CTRL key left of the "A" key and like it that way. I use Dynastar both on the CoCo and MM/1 and having the CTRL key there is very convenient. Ernie. #: 14248 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 21:41:53 Sb: #14219-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Speaking of ctrl-key placement! Just who was the idiot who decided that the ctrl key belonged at the bottom of the keyboard. As if we need to hit caps-lock a lot.... Is someone collecting a list of keyboards which do and don't work with the mm/1. Hmmm, I wonder why some don't! There are 2 Replies. #: 14256 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 06:56:10 Sb: #14248-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) My guess is that the idiot was someone who wanted a keyboard to look as much like a Selectric typewriter as possible. #: 14258 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 08:03:53 Sb: #14248-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I'm keeping track Bob. Seems that Northgate and Focus make boards that are not compatable with the MM/1. Mark theroizes something to do with timimg. I've seen a fix for the Northgate posted somewhere with less than stelllar results reported . Can't say about the focus. It's been sent back and a Chicony purchased in place. Steve #: 14240 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 10:58:32 Sb: #14218-#MM/1 formatting Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) Ernie, Could you post the complete dmode output for your descriptor? I'm using the new drivers without any problems and would like to compare. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14265 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 18:11:31 Sb: #14240-#MM/1 formatting Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Here's the dmode of /d1. I've tried it with rates=$30 but still get error 247 unless sct and t0s=31. name=d1 drv=1 stp=3 typ=$21 dns=$03 cyl=80 sid=2 vfy=0 (on) sct=33 t0s=33 sas=8 ilv=2 tfm=0 toffs=0 soffs=0 ssize=256 cntl=$0000 trys=7 lun=0 wpc=0 rwr=0 park=0 lsnoffs=0 totcyls=80 ctrlrid=0 rates=$00 scsiopt=$0000 maxcount=65535 Am I missing something obvious? This boot will read msdos diskettes using the /hpc1 descriptor by the way. I'm using modules from the update Mark uploaded. Any help will be much appreciated. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 14268 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 21:17:35 Sb: #14265-#MM/1 formatting Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) Ernie, I see by a later message, you're all fixed up. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14286 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 20:31:51 Sb: #14268-MM/1 formatting Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Yes. I think I've got everything working now. Haven't had time to try everything out yet though. Thanks. Ernie. #: 14249 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 21:42:11 Sb: #14223-#Select Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Yeah, I forgot all about the lockout problem. Haven't tried it with a non-interactive window. And if you switch windows to hit enter so that the block goes away, well it defeats the purpose of the command . Does the same thing happen when you do "(winsel;myprog)<>>>/w"? Since a shell is being forked to handle the stuff in the line, I guess things are blocked here too? It would be nice to have an elegant way to handle this. Hmmm, what about having a prog. open a path to /w, select the new window and then start a shell there with "myprog" as a parm? Might be a lot of shells being forked, but it should work. I just have to write a "open new window, select it and run a program in it" program. Opps, not that simple. I'd have to close stdin, etc. first so that the new program can use it's own paths. Hmmm, and then there is still the problem of returning to the original screen--esp. if the paths have been closed. Oh, guess they could be duped to higher numbers... will give this some thought, play and let you know. There is 1 Reply. #: 14252 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 00:22:49 Sb: #14249-#Select Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, The lockout comes from a program (like the shell) tieing up a device with a pending ReadLn. SCF locks the device so that someone else can't splat characters on top of whatever you're about to type in. Just forking a subshell with "()" doesn't cause a lockout, as it doesn't do any reads while working. But you're right, "(selwin;myprog)<>>>/w" doesn't work. That's because none of those paths are associated with the currently interactive window. It's easy to get around this when the shell (like the CoCo's) has "/term;mdir -e)<>>>/w The ">/term" is kinda like the CoCo's "/w8 Hit to confirm that the window was displaying; then back to /term. display 1b 21 >/w8 Nothing happened. There is 1 Reply. #: 14319 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 01:00:54 Sb: #14317-Select Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Right - we went over that a few messages ago. Try making up that winsel command instead. best, kev #: 14250 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 21:42:44 Sb: #drive rates Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Just thought I'd let you all know the results of some testing I've done with Carl's new floppy drivers for the mm/1. These tests were done with a Toshiba HD drive--I'd be interested in knowing if different drives give different results. First off, I've discovered that I can format 37 sectors and 84 tracks. This is probably pushing things, and is not something I recommend. Second, here are some speed tests (I'm just showing the fastest rate at different sect. counts): sects ilv k/sec 36 3 596 35-28 2 834 27 1 1043 (not consistant) 26 1 1390 The penalty for "turbo mode" seems to be pretty expensive. Now we just have to decide on a standard format for interchange! There are 2 Replies. #: 14257 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 07:00:04 Sb: #14250-#drive rates Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Hmmm...could you post dmode output for the various descriptors? I'm finding that I can't format /d0 using the new driver, even with the rates field changed. Thanks. There are 2 Replies. #: 14259 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 08:07:56 Sb: #14257-#drive rates Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) JJ, I'm using the new update drivers with out a problem. I've included mm1.d0 as my floppy descriptor with the following parameters: name=d0 drv=0 stp=3 typ=$27 dns=$03 cyl=80 sid=2 vfy=0 (on) sct=32 t0s=32 sas=8 ilv=2 tfm=0 toffs=0 soffs=0 ssize=256 cntl=$0000 trys=0 lun=0 wpc=0 rwr=0 park=0 lsnoffs=0 totcyls=80 ctrlrid=0 rates=$30 scsiopt=$0000 maxcount=65535 Hope this helps. Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 14266 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 18:50:53 Sb: #14259-drive rates Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I just read your message to James and saw your dmode. I set typ=$27 and rates=$30. Now everything appears to work normally. I thought I had tried all the combinations for PD_TYP and PD_Rate on page 3-6 of the V2.4 Release Notes. No matter. It's working now. Thanks, Ernie. #: 14270 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 22:17:09 Sb: #14259-#drive rates Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Thanks, Steve. I'll check out what I'm using, and give the settings you list a try. There is 1 Reply. #: 14279 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 07:56:43 Sb: #14270-#drive rates Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Lemme know if it works. Those parameters seem to fix Ernie up. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14284 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 17:43:50 Sb: #14279-drive rates Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Tried changing type and rates, and it did indeed work. Thanks. #: 14318 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 00:05:20 Sb: #14257-#drive rates Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I see from later messages that you've gotten the dmodes you need. I did notice that type=$27. Hmmm, shouldn't that be $26 for a 3" floppy? There are 2 Replies. #: 14326 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 17:45:07 Sb: #14318-#drive rates Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) You may very well be right; I'd have to go look up the meanings of the bits. I think new descriptors are going to be uploaded shortly, so I won't sweat it. There is 1 Reply. #: 14331 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Feb-92 00:01:06 Sb: #14326-drive rates Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I'm pretty sure typ=$27 is done to make the driver think it's a 8" to get the 3ms step rate. And to let the driver also know that it's a 3.5" for formatting purposes. #: 14354 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Feb-92 22:07:50 Sb: #14318-drive rates Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Mike H. is pretty close. Type *should* be $26. But, due to the roms, that disk won't boot. If (and only if) you want it to boot, you have to add $01, the old 8" bit. This will (I am told) be corrected in a future release of the roms. I made all the distribution desctriptors that way to try to avoid billions and billions (sorry Carl) of people complaining that they couldn't get disks to boot. Wish I could type - desctriptors == descriptors. #: 14278 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 06:19:23 Sb: #14250-drive rates Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Your speed tests look a little slow. A 1.43 Meg MM/1 type formatted disk should get around 15 Kbytes a second transfer (read and write). >Now we just have to decide on a standard format for interchange! Well, I'd suggest leaving the descriptors as thet come from IMS. That might be a good "standard". Mark #: 14251 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 22:26:37 Sb: #14167-BASIC's INKEY Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) AHA! that's where the 208 comes from. I must try it from the /term port and see what happens there. More than one way to skin a cat around here. Must admit though I am eagerly awaiting the VT100 version of the screen driver. ( not to mention certain windowing software ;-) ) Thanks - Bob. #: 14254 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 05:00:43 Sb: #14139-#Floppy Driver Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark where is the update archieves to be found? John Strong There is 1 Reply. #: 14255 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 06:45:43 Sb: #14254-Floppy Driver Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: John Strong 72270,1555 (X) Johm, The updates are not here. I removed them to make some corrections. They will be re-uploaded soon. Mark #: 14260 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 08:18:41 Sb: #handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: All AS I continue my shake out of the I/O board, I've run across a problem using my high speed PPI 9600 baud modem on /t3. Seems that unless I turn off the local hardware flow control (RTS/CTS), data isn't received. I can dial, make the connect, get all the nice info that tells me I have a MNP and v.42 connection. I can also see the xmit light flash on the modem, so data is getting through. Flipping thought the Tech manual (nice job, Mark!), I find info to the effect that hardware hand shaking isn't turned on. To do so, I need only to set the high bit on the 'type' parameter. Lessee .... it's '00' now, so that would make it $80, jes? Reading further, I'm also told there is not software to accomplish this task. Trying Xmode /t3 type=$80 confirms this. What's a newbie to do? Is there a way I can do what needs to be done? Am I even on the right track? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14263 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 13:22:30 Sb: #14260-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Setting type=$80 is the way to turn on hardware handshake. I used a binary file editor (bedt or ded or ??) but moded works too. I figured someone would crank out a little util to do it. The downside is you have to reboot after patching. There is 1 Reply. #: 14264 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 18:06:02 Sb: #14263-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) I found you can xmode /t3 type=80 (notice no hex sign) the save it out and verify it with fixmod or ded. I've the same set up as you. PM 9600SA and all. Works VERY well at 38.4 Kb. :-) Sure make uucp fly! There is 1 Reply. #: 14269 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 21:45:46 Sb: #14264-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I was able to use xmode as you suggested and saved it out, used fixmod and made a new boot. Still no luck. Everything is still as it was ... data going out, but nothing coming back. Which version of xmode are you using? The one that came on the distribution disks or the one with the update modules that was here for a few days? How do you have your modem set up? Anything special? Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 14273 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 02:04:50 Sb: #14269-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) The ident of my xmode util: Header for: xmode Module size: $21C2 #8642 Owner: 1.0 Module CRC: $98A4B1 Good CRC Header parity: $50CF Good parity Edition: $13 #19 Ty/La At/Rev $101 $C001 Permission: $555 -----e-r-e-r-e-r Exec off: $4E #78 Data size: $730 #1840 Stack size: $C00 #3072 Init. data off: $1E1C #7708 Data ref. off: $2100 #8448 Prog Mod, 68000 obj, Sharable, Sticky Module Output of /t3: noupc bsb bsl echo lf null=0 pause pag=24 bsp=08 del=18 eor=0D eof=1B reprint=04 dup=01 psc=17 abort=03 quit=05 bse=08 bell=07 type=80 baud=38400 xon=11 xoff=13 tabc=09 tabs=4 Hope this helps! There is 1 Reply. #: 14280 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 07:58:18 Sb: #14273-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Your xmode matches the one I'm using (from the update). I'll try your modem settings as well as upping the port speed to 38.4 as you have done and see what gives. Thanks! Steve #: 14274 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 02:05:26 Sb: #14269-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Here's how I set up the modem: Practical Paripherals PM9600SA with the following defaults AT &F &C1 &D3 S0=1 E0 L0 T Q2 &W Then to turn on error-correction and auto compression AT &Q5 I also got tired of listening to it dial in the middle of the night so AT M0 &W Here's the at&v profile: ACTIVE PROFILE: DTE:38400 DCE:9600 PARITY:NONE B16 B1 B41 B60 E1 L0 M0 N1 Q20 T V1 W1 X4 Y0 &C1 &D3 &K3 &Q6 &S0 &U0 &Y0 S00:002 S01:000 S02:043 S03:013 S04:010 S05:008 S06:002 S07:120 S08:002 S09:006 S10:014 S11:095 S12:050 S18:000 S25:005 S26:001 S30:000 S36:007 S37:009 S38:020 S43:006 S46:138 S48:007 S82:128 S86:000 S95:044 STORED PROFILE 0: B16 B1 B41 B60 E1 L0 M0 N1 Q2 T V1 W1 X4 Y0 &C1 &D3 &K3 &Q6 &S0 &U0 S00:002 S02:043 S06:002 S07:120 S08:002 S09:006 S10:014 S11:095 S12:050 S18:000 S25:005 S26:001 S36:007 S37:009 S38:020 S46:138 S48:007 S82:128 S95:044 STORED PROFILE 1: B16 B1 B41 B60 E1 L0 M0 N1 Q0 T V1 W0 X4 Y0 &C1 &D3 &K3 &Q5 &S0 &U0 S00:000 S02:043 S06:002 S07:050 S08:002 S09:006 S10:014 S11:095 S12:050 S18:000 S25:005 S26:001 S36:007 S37:000 S38:020 S46:138 S48:007 S82:128 S95:000 Ask if you have any Q's. There are 2 Replies. #: 14281 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 08:12:19 Sb: #14274-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Something's still amiss. I'll go over your modem parameter setting with a fine tooth comb when I get home from the office tonight. I may have someting out of wack there. Can you think of anything else that might be contributing to this problem? Did you happen to whip up a special cable perhaps? I have another paddle board that is wanting one more jumper. I'll dig one up at the office and try that board tonight, just incase it's related to that. Thanks for working with me! Steve #: 14288 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 21:13:15 Sb: #14274-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I've just finished installing /t4 (second paddle board) and find I have the same problems with that one as well. The thing does fine so long as hardware flow contrtol is off. (&K0) I'm in the process of matching your modem parameters and trying it again, but inthe meantime, could I get you to verify the position of the 8 jumpers on your paddle boards? Mine are as follows: ________ DB9 ______ P2 |||||||| P4 .||. Pretty sorry drawing ...but you get the idea, jes? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14291 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 01:12:32 Sb: #14288-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Well, your jumpers are on a little diff. Ok here's mine: P2 |||||||| All of 'em jumpered. P4 |:|: I guess it's P4 P3 :::: Ribbon cable to P9 on the board. I'm doing this from memory, but I just did the set up the day before yesterday. Pease had one on the other end of the phone and told me how to jumper it. Luck, - Mike - There are 2 Replies. #: 14296 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 06:31:35 Sb: #14291-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, The jumpers on P4 control the logic of RTS and DTR. The jumper is labeled as: 1 * * 2 3 * * 4 5 * * 6 7 * * 8 looking at the paddle board with the DB-9 to the left. Jumpering pins 1 and 2 allow RTS to toggle freely. Jumpers across 3 and 4 tie RTS high. Jumpering pins 5 and 6 allow DTR to toggle freely while jumpering 7 and 8 tie it high. Steve's problem is pins 3 and 4 are jumpered. The default settings on the paddle boards are for 3,4 and 5,6 to be jumpered. If he moves the jumper on 3,4 to 1,2, it should work. This is all explained in the tech manual. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14306 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 17:54:55 Sb: #14296-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Thanks for the help! Yup, Mine is jumpered the way you describe. I see he's got it going now. (yippie!) > This is all explained in the tech manual. Oh, the tech manual I have is an empty binder. ;-) #: 14298 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 08:25:59 Sb: #14291-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, We're cooking with gas now! Your pictures, coupled with Marks citation from the tech manual has me up and going with the PPI modem. Thanks! Now ... all I need to figure out is how to increase the xmit and rec buffer size in the appropriate descriptors. At 9600 baud, Sterm falls all over itself with the stock values. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14307 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 18:40:42 Sb: #14298-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Great! Guess I had the jumpers backwards. Sorry 'bout that. The way Mark said to jumper P4 is the way I have mine too. Have you copied the moded.fields file, that was in the update, to /DD/SYS? If so just do a "moded t3" to the descriptor on disk. It allows you to set the buffer sizes. With STerm and the PPI, just for fun try an at$h to list the modems AT menu. You'll see that Kev's character now maps to the old CoCo up line char. (Bummer) I've tried to get him to take it out. So if you to a write to the window, the $09 comes out as an up line command and if you do a writeln it's a . 'Course it makes sense to use write in a term program, right? (Pun Alert!) 'Cause write is the right way to write, right? (Baa-daa-ping!) When you figure out the optimal buffer sizes for Sterm and /t3 lemme know what sizes you ended up with. My input buffer size is 3840 and the output buffer is 32768? Seems quite incorrect to me! Lemme check to see If I have the latest /t3 descriptor.... Oops! My t3 is 8 bytes shorter than the latest. Better fix that right now. Input is 80 output is 140..... .. Ok put the new descriptor in. I set the input buffer to 4096. Works well for everything but CIS at 9600 bps. @ 9600 it still drops chars with STerm on CIS. Works fine on the local BBS's and with UUCP tho. (Ain't this fun!) There are 2 Replies. #: 14308 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 21:27:46 Sb: #14307-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Wow .... you're really up there with the buffer size. I was thinking hard to use 1024. I'll let you know what I finally end up with. Thanks for the pointer on the moded.fields file. Without manuals, I'm running blind. And I hate to keep asking Mark for every bit of advice. Back to the buffer size... I wonder how Carl setled on 80/140 as defaults. Or is he just carrying on a Microware tradition? Steve #: 14311 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Feb-92 07:01:59 Sb: #14307-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, >You'll see that Kev's character now maps to the old CoCo up line char. >(Bummer) I've tried to get him to take it out. So if you to a write to the >window, the $09 comes out as an up line command and if you do a writeln it's >a . 'Course it makes sense to use write in a term program, right? Yeah, I noticed with Sterm that stupid up cursor comes back because Sterm does use write() to write to the screen. I thought about putting writeln() in to fix it, but then I'd have to wait until a full line of text came in from the modem before writing to the screen. This would make the output look pretty jumpy if there were long lines in the data stream so I decided against it. Seems pretty stupid to me to have that up-cursor in there again. After years of listening to people complain about it you would think that Kevin would not have put it back in. Sometimes I wonder were that boy's mine is. Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 14320 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 01:01:41 Sb: #14311-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Ummm, the 09=up was in there because of the people who originally wanted (and had specified at first) "CoCo compatibility". As for write() vs writeln()... learn some more. Writeln doesn't always mean "write until carriage return". It means "write with possible editing"... eg: change tabs to spaces for terminals which don't support tabs and/or if you want tabs to be a different spacing than what the terminal default is. Writeln works just like write if you specify fewer characters and turn off certain path options. RTM. Here's a program which should take any windio version and kill the 09=up code. Load it into basic, pack it, then chd to your boot module directory and make a copy of your old windio. Now call the program using the name of the windio file to modify, like "nulltab windio"... then make a new boot. Enjoy! PROCEDURE nulltab DIM f,filepos:INTEGER DIM b,bmi(2),nop(2):BYTE filepos=0 \ nop(1)=$4e\ nop(2)=$71 PARAM name$ OPEN #f,name$ LOOP GET #f,bmi filepos=filepos+2 IF bmi(1)=$6b AND bmi(2)=$04 THEN GET #f,bmi IF bmi(1)=$33 AND bmi(2)=$40 THEN PRINT USING "h4",filepos GOTO 100 ENDIF filepos=filepos+2 ENDIF ENDLOOP END 100 REM Replace 09 code with nop's SEEK #f,filepos PUT #f,nop PUT #f,nop CLOSE #f SHELL "fixmod -u "+name$ END There are 2 Replies. #: 14323 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 12:00:58 Sb: #14320-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Neat Kev! I made the patch, what a difference. Is there a way to patch it to jump the routine that converts 09's to the writeln 09 routine? Thanks, - Mike - #: 14338 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Feb-92 06:04:50 Sb: #14320-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, >Ummm, the 09=up was in there because of the people who originally wanted >(and had specified at first) "CoCo compatibility". Good answer Kev. Did you keep all the other bugs in there too so everyone would feel "at home" (grin). Mark #: 14322 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 12:00:11 Sb: #14311-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Sterm isn't the only com program that uses write. So does uWare's Com. I wonder if Vaughn Cato's does the same? Even Kermit uses write! - Mike - #: 14267 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 21:00:36 Sb: #MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: Kevin Darling Where can I get information on the get & set status call for the MM/1? Assembly language please. John Strong There is 1 Reply. #: 14275 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 02:25:01 Sb: #14267-#MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: John Strong 72270,1555 (X) John, You can find all that in the OS-9 system manuals that come with you OSK box. There is a whole section on OS-9 system calls. If you don't have your manuals yet, I can help you on some of them. Any calls you have in mind? - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 14289 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 22:54:36 Sb: #14275-#MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, no manuals yet! I need the screen/window related calls. I program primaryly in assembly. Will try C when my I/O board arrives & I have the Hard drive running. thanks in advance for any and all help. John R. Strong There is 1 Reply. #: 14292 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 01:13:11 Sb: #14289-#MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: John Strong 72270,1555 (X) John, If you can call the c library from asm you should be able to use the CGFX.L here in Lib 12. The docs are up there also. If you can't use the library, I'm pretty sure someone had uploaded a util that told the display codes for the CoCo 3 in DL 10. One was called displa.txt and the other helpwn.b09. Any specific codes you need? This list is quite extensive. There is 1 Reply. #: 14309 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 22:03:37 Sb: #14292-MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I know the Coco 3 display codes. Without the Osk Manuals, I have no idea on how to call a C library function. What I need is the down and dirty (grin) details on using such get/set status calls as SS.Palet gs.address , etc. from assembly. register usage , data stuctures (SS.Mouse) and the like. I can't start to port any of my games to OSK with this info. Screen layout info would also be handy, as well as more info on SS.Play & SS.Tone. any and all info would be appreciated. I can hardly to get my games running on the MM/1. (Soviet Bloc & Gems) John Strong #: 14272 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 00:25:49 Sb: #Of mice & MM/1's Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev; Finally got my I/O board last week and got the HD populated -- this is *great*! What a personality change it makes in the MM/1!! I'm having a bit of trouble getting a mouse to work tho, and could use a hint or two. ;-) I've got ms and ms901 (ms68901) in memory, stdpats_16 & _256 merged via startup, but I never see a mouse pointer. Tried both a Mouse Systems trackball and a Logictech mouse on /t2 (they both work on a PC). Logictech is completely dead - movement = null, buttons = null. Mouse says on bottom 'Microsoft compatible'. Mouse Systems - buttons = null, trackball = window change. M/S is supposed to be 'Logictech compatible'. What am I missing? Should I have /t2 in the boot? TIA, ...Jim p.s. For anyone looking for an audio cable for their MM/1, most stereo dealers carry a cable made for Euro cassette decks to amp input made by RECOTON - p/n AC409 for about $3.69 or so. There is 1 Reply. #: 14276 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 02:25:39 Sb: #14272-#Of mice & MM/1's Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Jim, Do you have ms68901 or ms901? They are different drivers. Make sure the baud rate in /ms is set to 1200. And dump /ms to see which driver it wants. (Should be at the end of the module). The driver and descriptor has to be Gen'd into the boot or it wont work. Also you'll need to leave /T2 OUT of the bootfile. The patterns should not affect the mouse at all. I'm running a LogiTech 3 button mouse here, Model No: CC-93-DF. (I can't remember what the box said, I use to use it on the CoCo) Let us know how it turns out. If you don't get a pointer after doing the above. Post the Idents of the modules and the xmode to /ms for me. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 14295 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 06:14:09 Sb: #14276-#Of mice & MM/1's Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike; Thanks for the quick reply. About the only thing that I hadn't checked was the baud rate for /ms, but it was O.K. >Do you have ms68901 or ms901? They are different drivers. Hmm, the bootlist calls for ms68901, but ms901 is the one that shows up in an MDIR. There is no ms901 in the bootmods/win directory. A dump shows both to be identical, at least on screen. Header for: ms Module size: $78 #120 Owner: 0.1 Module CRC: $A4F4E0 Good CRC Header parity: $3F5B Good parity Edition: $5 #5 Ty/La At/Rev $F00 $8000 Permission: $555 -----e-r-e-r-e-r Dev Descr, Sharable Header for: ms901 Module size: $2C8 #712 Owner: 0.0 Module CRC: $78AEE2 Good CRC Header parity: $1E22 Good parity Edition: $2 #2 Ty/La At/Rev $E01 $A000 Permission: $555 -----e-r-e-r-e-r Dev Drv, 68000 obj, Sharable, System State Process /ms noupc bsb bsl noecho lf null=0 nopause pag=24 bsp=08 del=18 eor=0D eof=1B reprint=04 dup=01 psc=17 abort=00 quit=00 bse=08 bell=07 type=00 baud=1200 xon=11 xoff=13 tabc=09 tabs=4 T2 is NOT in the bootlist, per the instructions in the User's Guide. I'm beginning to think that the Mouse Systems TR-305 is a non-compatible one, although I thought Mike Knudsen was using one. Thanks, ...Jim There is 1 Reply. #: 14305 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 17:54:06 Sb: #14295-Of mice & MM/1's Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Jim, You have the same modules as mine. Hmmmm. Execpt my ms901 was patched to give me full access to the hi-res overscan screens. Xmode is the same on the discriptor too. Only suggestion at this point is to borrow a mouse that is known to be Logitech compatible. #: 14283 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 17:37:48 Sb: #'C' help Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all does someone have a 'C' program segment that shows an example of how to read directory entries and file sizes. There is 1 Reply. #: 14285 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 18:55:21 Sb: #14283-#'C' help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott - Look at the files.ar source in DL9. It's fairly simple though: 1) Open directory of choice for DIR+READ 2) Scan entries at 32 bytes each (29 name; 3 LSN of FD Sector) 3) When you find the name you want, get the LSN for its FD Sector 4) Open the WHOLE disk (i.e. /d1@, /dd@), and seek & read that sector number. Extract the file's size from here. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 14294 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 04:51:29 Sb: #14285-#'C' help Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) I could not find the files.ar in Lib 9. seems pretty straightfoward though There is 1 Reply. #: 14301 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 08:59:18 Sb: #14294-#'C' help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott - You may also want to see if HDKALL.AR has it in there (Dl9). Mike Ward may have FILES.AR offline in an archive. Drop him a note at 76703,2013. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 14324 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 15:35:29 Sb: #14301-#'C' help Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Nope, no FILES.AR in ANY of my offline archives. There is 1 Reply. #: 14325 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 16:04:02 Sb: #14324-#'C' help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Ward 76703,2013 (X) Bummer... I hope I included it in HDKALL in that case. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 14330 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Feb-92 00:00:41 Sb: #14325-#'C' help Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) If I remember right, you wanted to keep tighter control on HDKIT so you had 'em remove the source and you uploaded an AR of the executables only. There is 1 Reply. #: 14347 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Feb-92 10:43:24 Sb: #14330-'C' help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike - Not to my knowledge, but then I am getting old. In fact, I thought HDKALL was a full posting of all sources, since I was getting rid of the Gimix, and wanted other folks to be able to munge it if they wanted. Pete #: 14336 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Feb-92 14:58:43 Sb: 'c' and Microware basic Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all Is there a way to link 'c' sub-routines to Microware basic in OS9 68K? I know under LvlI/II you could link with the '-b' option while linking it, but the 'l68' module does not provide that option. #: 14355 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Feb-92 22:49:24 Sb: #Welcome Aboard Fm: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 To: John Strong 72270,1555 (X) John, Glad to see you on CIS. You can get my name/ID from this message. Happy MM1 programming. Bill Healton There is 1 Reply. #: 14395 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 21:18:34 Sb: #14355-Welcome Aboard Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 Thanks Bill. got a 2nd drive form Lyben & it works fine, however it is noiser than the orginal. I may be getting another ST & a Monochrome monitor from my brother in Denver. HMM... John Strong #: 14382 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Feb-92 09:55:29 Sb: archiving methods Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all Last night, I uploaded to DL12 a study I just did of 4 compression/ archiving commands for OSK. I thought this would be helpful to all when choosing an archive method to get the most out of your transmissions..... Enjoy! jim Sutemeier #: 14390 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Feb-92 23:09:19 Sb: GNU C Compiler Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all Good news for you OSK C people. I've obtained permission to upload the GNU C++ Compiler to this SIG, and will upload it here soon. (as soon as I have all of it downloaded from the 'other' service!!) It'll be really great of an addition to your C libraries. jim Sutemeier Sirius Software #: 14392 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 08:37:11 Sb: #/P ports Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve; Thanks for the info on the /P ports - I'll be ordering the Tech Manual RSN I guess. Have you heard of anyone doing anything with the I**C interface yet? I read an interesting news blurb the other day about a breakout card being developed by (I think) DEC and Phillips specifically for the I**C. Will bring the info home and post if there's any interest. re: Artec mouse Fry's Electronics and CompUsa both carry them for around $15 - one of the benefits of living here in 'hi-tech wonderland' - lots of price competition. ...Jim There are 2 Replies. #: 14393 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 19:36:15 Sb: #14392-/P ports Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 Thanks for the the information on the mouse. Is this the one that that has the scaleable resolution button on the side? Two button? Three button? Steve #: 14394 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 19:40:08 Sb: #14392-/P ports Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 Jim, The only stuff I've seen on the I2C buss has been in the Tech manual. Mark's included a page of device and part numbers. Interesting reading. If you find out anything else, I'd be interested in seeing it. #: 14396 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 21:31:40 Sb: #upload space Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: [F] Wayne Day 76703,376 Wayne....I am preparing to upload the cmds for the C++ Compiler, but the sign tells me that it's out of space for uploading. Could you take care of this? Thanks. jim Sutemeier There is 1 Reply. #: 14397 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 22:04:18 Sb: #14396-upload space Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 Jim, I've squeezed a bit more space for you into the libs. Can you give us some idea of the size of the upload(s) you have planned? #: 14399 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Feb-92 10:35:47 Sb: #14397-#upload space Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Mike Ward 76703,2013 (X) size of uploads--> Mike, the cmds for the C++ Compiler take up 690,000 bytes (compressed). (The main module for this compiler is 849,000 bytes, uncompressed!) I had also intended on uploading a GCC compiler, which is ANSI compatible. It is smaller in size than the C++ Compiler, should only be about 750-800,000 bytes total for that set. When I started the uploading, wasn't aware that there were any space probs here on CI$. I'll try to get the C++ cmds in now, please advise me on the ANSI compiler. Thanks. jim Sutemeier There is 1 Reply. #: 14436 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Feb-92 00:13:50 Sb: #14399-upload space Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, I've made a little bit more space available, so if you run into problems again, please let us know. There aren't really any space problems here on CompuServe..... just a problem with us not always erasing the files that folks are no longer accessing. Houskeeping chores, ya know. Wayne #: 14404 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Feb-92 23:24:00 Sb: #14390-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) I already snarfed it from the InterNet. It is great. It would be nice if it generated srcdbg compatable debug info though... While I can survive with printf()s (err cout <<'s), it would be nice to be able to use the debugger... Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 14405 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Feb-92 00:02:19 Sb: #14404-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) I haven't gotten much further than to start listing out the defs files, myself. But, 'cause I ALWAYS try something out before reading the dox (grin), I simply HAD to run a test comparison between the MW Compiler and this GNU C++ Compiler, as it will 'try to imitate traditional C'. I compiled a program of 27,375 bytes first with the MW compiler...it took 2:14 minutes, final outfile was 23,428 bytes. Using GNU 1.40, it took 2:21 minutes, and, using the -O (for optimizer) option, the final outfile was 22,806 bytes. That really impressed the heck out of me. Over 600 bytes optimized out, on a compiler that says it will "TRY" to compile it. Now, I gotta go buy some books on C++, so I can start to learn that implementation of C. Have fun! jim Sutemeier There is 1 Reply. #: 14425 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Feb-92 20:49:55 Sb: #14405-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) I tried to recompile a few of my programs (Ved and Vprint) and found that the code actually increased in size a little. Guess it depends on what's going on. But you're correct--they are very nice offerings. Not sure if I'm going to get into C++ or not. Oh, are the doc files you uploaded for the C++ or C compiler? There is 1 Reply. #: 14429 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Feb-92 15:32:15 Sb: #14425-GNU C Compiler Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) dox files for C Compiler--> Bob, I uploaded two different compilers from GNU, the ANSI C Compiler and the C++ C Compiler. The ANSI C Compiler is complete and intact, just as it sits (all dox and cmds are in the same archive.) The C++ Compiler, on the other hand, are so extensive (and VERY long) that I left those in idividual archives in the database. So, the DOX 1 & 2 belong to the C++ Compiler, as does the lfiles, defs, and gnu cmds. I haven't decided if I want to tackle C++ myself.....yet.....but I LIKE the option of being able to do so if I want to. Take care. jim Sutemeier #: 14408 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Feb-92 09:00:34 Sb: #14393-/P ports Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve; No resolution switch, but it does have a PC/MS switch on the bottom and it is 3 button - model AM25. ...Jim #: 14424 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Feb-92 16:14:32 Sb: G-WINDOWS Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ALL To all - G-WINDOWS for the SYSTEM IV computer is released and available for immediate shipment. All orders we have received were shipped today. Owners of SYSTEM IV computers or computers using the PT68K4 board, call for a free demo copy of the G-WINDOWS and G-VIEW. For more information, see upload G-WINDOWS INFO in the library. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO 302-378-2555 #: 14438 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Feb-92 02:04:25 Sb: #MM/1 stereo Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: all welp, another stupid question bout my MM/1, I've tried Mike K.'s recplays program, works fine, sept when I plug in my stereo to the audio in of the MM/1, the MM/1 is grounding out my stereo, whitch makes the recordings sound like crap... I tested the cable and its not shorted, also all the wires are going to the right place (that tends to help)... so just for kicks I measured the resistance between the audio in signal pin, and the audio in ground... both channels were about 620 ohms... since they were both about the same, I dont think anything is fried or anything like that... but only 620 ohms? shouldn't it be more? thats a real load for my amp, and it cant take it... is that normal though? would puting a op amp betwwen the stereo amp and the MM/1 (with an Av of 1) help? them little suckers have a high Z in...(or hay, even an Av of 100,000... amplify the **** outa it :-) oh well, anyone got any Ideas? Ken or Cosmic@SandV or something, some where on INTERNET (or is it bitnet? I forget...) or you can get me on the Coco listserv... or or or There is 1 Reply. #: 14442 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Feb-92 10:17:18 Sb: #14438-MM/1 stereo Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken, If it helps, I think R2 and R6 back by the connector are the resistors to ground on the sound input (600 ohms each). R1 and R5 (100 ohms) are in series, respectively. kev #: 14456 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Mar-92 22:12:03 Sb: #C help Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all I'm not sure if what I'm trying to do is possible, but it should be . Maybe someone with a bit more C-knowledge can help... I want to get the size of one element of a structure. Problem is that I don't have an actual structure to work on, just a pointer or typedef. Assuming typedef struct{ char a1[40]; int i1[10]; }foo; What I'd like to do is this: int t=sizeof(foo.a1); Which should set t==40. I just get an error. I tried it without the typedef and used sizeof(struct foo.a1) but got the same problem. If you actually create storage, things work fine: foo dummy; int t=dummy.a1; I've worked around this by using #define ASIZE 40 and then using this to set the size in the struct. But there should be a way to do it my way! Any ideas? There is 1 Reply. #: 14458 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Mar-92 07:25:30 Sb: #14456-#C help Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Maybe there should be, but there isn't. Look again at the permissible operands of sizeof: you can either have an expression, or a type. foo.a1 is neither. The nearest you can come to what you want is to use yet another typedef for the type of the structure member; then you can hand sizeof *that* type. There is 1 Reply. #: 14479 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Mar-92 00:36:41 Sb: #14458-C help Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Well, I was hoping I'd missed something in the sizeof() operand specs. Too bad I didn't -- always worth asking. But using a typedef to define the structure member is a neat trick. Thanks. #: 14514 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Mar-92 19:09:26 Sb: #CD-ROM Modules?? Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: All Help, Does any one know of/are writing drivers/descriptors for use with a SCSI CD-ROM drive on a 3 Meg MM/1? Keith There are 2 Replies. #: 14523 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 08:04:29 Sb: #14514-CD-ROM Modules?? Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, As far as I know, no one is writing any drivers for CD-ROMs. The problem is getting the drive manufacturers and especially the CD-ROM makers to release the specifications on how it is done without paying them large sums of money. If you can do this, then please do and let us know. It is just like when I decided to do UUCP for the CoCo. There were no specifications written down anywhere. There are now after several people got together and reverse engineered it which is more or less when I had to do with the help of some already existing source code. Mark #: 14530 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 13:02:19 Sb: #14514-CD-ROM Modules?? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, Mostly, you'd need an ISO-9660 file manager. I'd guess that MW has one, but I don't know the price or availability. Alternatively, someone could write one, but I don't know anyone capable of it right now. Check around on nets/BBSs tho... there may be some Unix C source for such things, or at least rough readers. thx! - kev #: 14515 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Mar-92 19:42:33 Sb: #Focus 3001 Keyboard Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: 76703,4255 (X) Steve I have a FOCUS 3001 keyboard with the two DIPS set as follows: 1 = ON 2 = OFF Sometimes when I turn on the MM/1 the following lights come on and then go off Caps Lock Num Lock Scroll Lock if these lights do not come on and then go back off the keyboard will not execpt UPPERCASE letters by using the SHIFT key. Is their a way to fix this problem?? I paid 60+ bucks for this (Second) keyboard. The first one did the same problem but only cost me $20 HELP Does the keyboard need modifided??? Keith There are 2 Replies. #: 14520 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 06:42:37 Sb: #14515-#Focus 3001 Keyboard Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) I'd kinda hate to reboot just to make sure, but I think my keyboard flashes those LEDs at powerup, too. Doesn't seem to affect its operation. There is 1 Reply. #: 14521 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 08:02:04 Sb: #14520-Focus 3001 Keyboard Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) James If they (the leds) do not come on then I can not get the SHIFT keys to work. They have to come on and then go back off. It did it Ii'Za few minutes ago, I have to turn the MM/1 off wait a few seconds and then try again, it worked the second time. Keith #: 14526 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 11:50:34 Sb: #14515-Focus 3001 Keyboard Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, I had no luck with the FOCUS keyboard I bought for my MM/1. Worked just fine on the PC's at the office, but no go on the MM/1. Returned it for a Chicony 5191 and have been very pleased. Steve #: 14527 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 12:19:25 Sb: #14246-Mshell Discount? Fm: edward gow 71670,3274 To: John Semler 70324,633 The GNU C compiler has not stifled the marketplace. On the contrary, it has done much to improve it. First, the Microware C compiler is the one with outdated technology and lack of support - look at the K&R Microware offering vs. GNUs ANSI, not to mention GNU C++. Also compare bugs in GCC against Microware C and see who loses! Second, look at what GCC has done for companies in the marketplace - Next, Wind River, and next DEC (with Wind River) all use it as their standard compiler. This way they don't have to waste their resources creating and supporting what will likely be an inferior C compiler. Instead they can apply their effort to generating customer features, such as POSIX functionality. Note the lack of POSIX offerings from Microware. Note also that Wind River uses GDB as the debugger for VxWorks and thus provides it for free while Microware wants $850 for its source debugger. GNU software is a boon both to individual users and to the industry at large. Microware will learn their lesson the hard way as OSK systems in the hands of home users lead to the porting ond development of replacements for all but the kernel of OS-9/68000. Then ALL anyone will buy from them is an industrial license at $29 per system. Even in Des Moines you can't live on that. #: 14539 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Mar-92 19:19:03 Sb: #MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kev 76703,4227 (X) Kev, I've been tracking down a problem with my MM/1 and it leads me suspiciously toward either the windowing software and or tsmon. I've got a 3meg MM/1 with 5 serial ports, tho /t2, /t3 and /t4 are all that are in use at the moment. /t2 is a local terminal while /t4 is set up to be my dial in. (tsmon /t4&). Within a 24 hour period, /term and /w1 will have locked up. /t2 is still fully functional. Rebooting has been the only way out of this fix. Sometimes, with /term and /w1 locked up, /t2 will demonstrate what I've named the 'just one off' effect. For example, if I wanted to issue the 'dir' command, pressing the 'd' would net no echo. Pressing the 'i' would net a 'd' echo,. Pressing the 'r' would net the 'i' echo. Hitting would complete the command and again to execute. Any thoughts on what's going on? I've taken to just running a shell on /t2 rather than using tsmon to see if that makes any difference. (By the way, using mtsmon doesn't make any difference. The same things happen.) I'm using version 30 of wcf and windio but the same problems appeared with 22. I've also noted unexpected values for xon and xoff in the window descriptors. WHat's behind $0F and $02. CHanging them to 00 has caused an interesting result at boot. Black border, black background, black type and a white cursor. Blindly using the color command sets things right but it's still got me wondering. (Thought the xon/xoff parameters might be related to the locked probelms). Anything you can suggest would be appreciated. Steve #: 14540 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Mar-92 19:21:12 Sb: TOP mmon Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed 76576,3312 Ed, Have you been able to get the TOP mmon package working? I've spent a few hours with it this weekend without much luck. Any pointers? Steve Press !> #: 14542 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Mar-92 21:11:08 Sb: #14539-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Is anything being printed to /term and /w1 from tsmon during this time? If not, I don't see how the window driver can be related... but stranger things have happened with drivers, I guess. Even more suspicious is that your (shell?) on the tsmon'd /t2 sometimes begins to echo weirdly. So yah, please let me know what happens with just the shell on there. Hmmm. /T2? Do you have ms and the mouse driver in place by any chance? That is, is windio trying to also use /t2 as the mouse port? No telling what kind of wacko troubles that could cause :-) Re: window descriptors. I did like Hazelwood and most others: took the quick way out for now, and used the XOn/XOff values to mean default fore/back colors. And the Type is the window type, and Baud is actually set to the window number. Later, I'll add CoCo-like extra descriptor spots for size, type, and so forth. But it's low on the priority list, of course. best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14549 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 07:54:00 Sb: #14542-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, I've got the mouse stuff commented out currently in my bootlist file since I'm not using it unitl I get all my serial ports running. So, hopefully that's not the problem. Nothing is being echoed visably to /term. Weird. Thanks for the info on the xon/xoff values. Makes sense now .... and I'll change 'em back. Black isn't my color! :-) I'll keep you posted on any development. Thanks for the assist! Maybe this will all go away with the new version, eh? :-) Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14554 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 14:46:36 Sb: #14549-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, you could also boot up with no window stuff at all... just running off the serial ports... and see what happens. BTW, check your Init module. Is your irq stack set pretty high? I think most of us now set it to well over 1000... I'm using 4096, for instance, which is probably ridiculously high, but with multiple interrupts possible at one time, it prevents oddball problems. kev There are 3 Replies. #: 14557 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:09:00 Sb: #14554-MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Two good ideas, Kev. I'll diddle some more and let you know what I find. Steve #: 14558 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:20:00 Sb: #14554-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Update: Just moded my init module. The IRQ stack was set to 512. I've bumped it up to the same 4096 you're using. Now .... can you tell me what I just did? :-) Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14559 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:43:00 Sb: #14558-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Oooooo... 512 was probably too low. You were setting the amount of stack space usable during interrupts. With a half-dozen interrupt level inputs, and more demanding interrupt routines, it helps to have enough breathing space for the system stack. Otherwise it might overwrite something critical. I suspect you'll be in better shape now. This is one of those "minor" details that isn't too obvious or mentioned often... and it causes especially hard to pin down problems which are usually blamed on everything else but :-) Luck! There is 1 Reply. #: 14560 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:49:49 Sb: #14559-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Great! Now wouldn't it just be great news if this fixed things right up? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14561 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:57:28 Sb: #14560-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Yah, it'd be great if it fixed your problems! But you know Murphy... :^) There is 1 Reply. #: 14565 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Mar-92 07:41:07 Sb: #14561-MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Yeah .... Murphy and I are well aquainted. We're at day 20 of a four day project to install an update to Oracle Case tools at the office on our SUN. Talk about a poor product ..... Steve #: 14573 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Mar-92 21:19:31 Sb: #14554-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, Just reporting in sir .... Lock up's continue with the IRQ stack upped. The shell on /t2 was still functional, but soon when to hell in a hand basket with the one-off problem previously described. I'm pondering my next approach. It will either be yanking the windowing stuff and running off the terminals as suggested earlier, or ditching tsmon and installing mmon (if Ed come through with the tips). Frustrating? Yeah .... but not as bad as work! ;-( Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14574 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Mar-92 21:50:06 Sb: #14573-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Yah, it's all part of the hobby :-) Just keep telling yourself that! I'd say to run without the windowing stuff first (since you have terminals hooked up, right? and because the diff should be visible fairly quickly). Luck again! - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14576 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Mar-92 07:07:01 Sb: #14574-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Now here's something that appears to be interesting : Id PId Grp.Usr Prior MemSiz Sig S CPU Time Age Module & I/O 2 0 0.0 128 0.50k 0 w 0.10 9:29 sysgo <>>>term 3 2 0.0 128 6.75k 0 s 3:28.62 9:29 shell <>>>term 4 0 0.0 128 6.75k 0 w 0.08 9:29 shell <>>>w1 5 4 0.0 128 6.75k 0 s 0.02 9:29 shell <>>>w1 6 0 0.0 128 6.75k 0 w 1.81 9:29 shell <>>>t2 7 0 0.0 128 9.50k 0 s 0.02 9:29 tsmon <>>>t4 8 6 0.0 128 18.00k 0 * 0.14 0:00 procs <>>t2 >dd This procs was taken this morning. The system has been up only 9:29 hours and look at the CPU time for the shell on /term. Looks to me to be way out of line. It's just sitting there doing nothing .... why's it breathing so hard? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14578 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Mar-92 18:15:49 Sb: #14576-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Your CPU Time for shell on /term shows 3 minutes, 28.62 seconds. Doesn't seem very much out of line to me. The Age is in hours:minutes. CPU Time is hrs:minutes:seconds.hundredths. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14600 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Mar-92 09:55:43 Sb: #14578-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, This thing gets truely weird. I have eliminated all references to tsmon, any version, and haven't had a lock up since. I'll be yanking the windowing stuff today and booting straight to terminal, re-install the tsmon on the modem port and see what happens. I realize the amount of CPU time displayed on /term's shell is a reasonable value in and of itself. The point I wanted to make was given the _nothing_ was executing on the shell save for the echo's from the startup file, and all activity for the 9 1/2 hours had been done on /t2's shell, the porportional difference between the two appeared to be significant. Another example from last night's session follows: Id PId Grp.Usr Prior MemSiz Sig S CPU Time Age Module & I/O 2 0 0.0 128 0.50k 0 w 0.09 13:37 sysgo <>>>term 3 4 0.0 128 6.75k 0 s 8.80 13:37 shell <>>>w1 4 0 0.0 128 6.75k 0 w 0.09 13:37 shell <>>>w1 5 2 0.0 128 6.75k 0 s 4:00.33 13:37 shell <>>>term 6 0 0.0 128 6.75k 0 w 5.80 13:37 shell <>>>t2 7 6 0.0 128 18.00k 0 * 0.12 0:00 procs <>>t2 >dd As you can see, the shell on /term is crunching numbers big time, while the shell on /t2 (where I was doing all my work) is fairly modest. Further, even comparing the CPU time on the idle window (ID #3) which is brought up at boot and just sitting there, to my active session on /t2 (ID #6) it would appear that shells associated with the windowing stuff tend to get real busy. Using Mark's nifty tool, Sysmon, which further breaks down CPU time into Total CPU Time, System State, and User State, I see that only .05 of the time spent on /term's shell is related to User activity. The rest being allocated in the System State column. I'll keep after this and let you know what I find. Thanks for the help! Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14606 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Mar-92 06:50:50 Sb: #14600-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Ooops and thanks! :-) Turns out there was a piece of code in the vertical interrupt routine left over from a super old statcall which was meant to wait for screen swaps. All it's doing (in this case) is waking up the idle shell waiting on keyboard input in the visible window, and then putting him right back to sleep again... nothing serious... but that's definitely what's causing the creeping cpu time reports. Dunno if it would cause tsmon problems, but might. Let's fix it and see. Using debug or ded, search for the sequence 2F0A4AAD in windio. You should find it around offset $2118 in ver 30; the entire sequence we want is: 2F0A 4AAD0008 6716. That code means "move.l a2,-(sp)"... "tst.l 8(a5)"... "beq.s NoWake". Just change the 67 to 60 (branch if equal -> branch always). Then save the changed module, reverify it, and make a new bootfile. BTW, to do this in debug, just call up the command (type "debug"). Then, dbg: l windio (link to windio) dbg: msl .r7 .r7+5000 2f0a4aad (mem search from start to start+$5000) That'll bring up a line something like: 0x00002118+r7 - 2F0A4AAD 00086716 246D0008 302A0008 The address on the left is close to the one we want... we can see the 67 up in the data shown on the right. So then we change it: dbg: c 2118+.r7 Debug will then show the first byte (2F), and we can hit ENTER until we're over the 67, at which time you enter 60 to change that byte. On the next one we enter "." to get out of the change mode, then enter "q" to quit. It's really kinda like 6809 debug, except that the fake .r7 register points by default to the module we've last linked to. best - kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 14607 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Mar-92 14:20:24 Sb: #14606-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, Here's what two days of testing has shown me: It now appears there are two distinct problems that have been hidding as one. Problem #1: The creeping CPU time. Thanks for the info on windio. Everything was as you said it would be. A quick session with dEd, and viola! no more CPU creep. (Is this anything like the Texas two step?) Problem #2: The 'one off' problem can now be be duplicated at will .... at least with my hardware setup. It looks to be isolated to /t2 only. It has nothing to do with the CPU creep issue as it has continued since I patched windio. Does the sc68901 and sc68681 drivers handle sequences differently? To duplicate the 'one-off' problem, I must fire up STERM on /t2. (I'm using sterm because the shell will try to act on the ). A quick funtionality test of sterm sets the stage (hit to redisplay it's help menu.) Now, I issue <7> (On the Wyse 50 and the TVI912 this is a command. The cursor homes, then 'scans the page'.) At the end of the 'scan' approximately 196 '&' characters are spit out on on sterm's screen. At this point, the 'one-off' problem is active as hitting will display a few more '&' at each press of the key. Attemping to do anyting at the keyboard will now demonstrate the problem. (try an for the help screen hitting several times to move things along. The 'one-off' problem doesn't seem to effect any windows or processes on /t3 or /t4. I'd like to see what happens on /t1. If the problem occurs there as well, it would appear that it's possibly the 68901 driver causing the woe. I need to hit Mark up for the remaining pieces of my MM/1. Can /t2 be moded to use a different driver? Any further thoughts or suggestions are appreicated. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14613 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Mar-92 02:35:12 Sb: #14607-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Do you have "com"? Or any other OSK term program? Just for fun, try one of those instead and see what happens. That can help pinpoint or eliminate possibilities. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14614 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Mar-92 07:46:15 Sb: #14613-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Thinking it was possible that Sterm might be contributing to the problem, I fired up Ckermit and was able to duplicate the exact pattern. Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 14618 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Mar-92 10:34:36 Sb: #14614-MM/1 help Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I just realized I didn't comment on your serial port woes. Mike and I dicussed this last friday at work. What you have discovered since then supports my theory, which is there is something wrong with the serial driver. It sounds suspiciously like a circular queue with the "pickup" pointer falling behind by one byte, or are variation on that same theme. Having narrowed it down to one particular port, I would suspect the driver associated with that port. Bill #: 14628 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Mar-92 07:09:16 Sb: #14614-#MM/1 help Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, >Thinking it was possible that Sterm might be contributing to the problem Ahhhh!! How could you even THINK of such as thing??!! Now that Carl has read this thread, perhaps a new driver for the 901's will be coming out soon to fix the "one-off" problem. The locking up problem will need some more looking into though I think. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14631 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Mar-92 15:21:55 Sb: #14628-MM/1 help Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 You realize I have no hardware to find the problem or check the fix, yes? #: 14546 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 03:45:40 Sb: #14540-#TOP mmon Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I have the TOP mmon working OK on my system - also on several POS systems we've sold to customers. (I use it to access their system(s) for maintenance, etc.) It's been a while since I actually configured the system so I don't remember all the details. I'll have to go back to my POS distribution disks and see what I include. I'll get back to you in the next couple of days. BTW, I assume you did read the docs? Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO There are 2 Replies. #: 14550 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 07:58:35 Sb: #14546-TOP mmon Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Great! I'm hopeful I can swap mmon in place of tsmon in order to track down some system weirdness (see note to Kev). I did read the docs and with a bit of liberal interpretation, installed things as instructed. I have mmon.config in /dd/sys as well as the sysinfo file. Right now, no mater how I invoke mmon, the process dies immediately without an error. Weird. Probably a nut loose on the keyboard. Lookingforward to any tips you might have. Steve #: 14569 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Mar-92 10:09:46 Sb: #14546-#TOP mmon Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed....how did you get mmon to work on your system? I tried EVERYTHING I could think of to get it to work, all to no avail. I got watch to watch the port, but that was as far as I could get it to go, too. Any help would be appreciated. jim Sutemeier There is 1 Reply. #: 14586 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Mar-92 04:28:01 Sb: #14569-#TOP mmon Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, As I told Steve, if you can't get it running in the next week or so, let me know and I'll back track and see what I did. It is interesting that you got 'watch' to work. Never got it to work right for me. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO There is 1 Reply. #: 14590 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Mar-92 21:27:30 Sb: #14586-#TOP mmon Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed....I used 'watch <>>>/t1', and sure enough, it turned my modem on (TR light) and sat there. Had a friend call in, but couldn't get the baud rate correct, or some other parameter correct, as watch just sat there. I fiddled with a whole bunch of different settings, but never could get the right combo. I tried mmon redirected, as above, mmon /t1, and everything else I could think of, and nothing worked. The copy I got I really don't recall any dox with. jim There is 1 Reply. #: 14605 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Mar-92 03:55:06 Sb: #14590-#TOP mmon Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, Docs for 'watch' and other TOP stuff are in the library here. I think the file name is TOP6. I just checked the man for 'watch'. It appears to designed to be used with a line for both voice and modem. It expects the modem autoanswer to be off. (When invoked, it sends a 'reset' string which it expects to include 's0'.) Briefly, the way it works is on the first ring, it looks for the word 'ring' on the port. It then waits 10 seconds. If there is a second 'ring' in that period, it assumes it is a voice call and returns to its waiting state. If the second 'ring' appears after 10 seconds but before 60 seconds, it turns the modem on and invokes 'logon'. If no one logs in within 60 seconds it does its house cleaning and reverts back to its waiting state. So, if you're using 'watch', the caller must let your phone ring one time, hang-up and then re-dial after at least 10 seconds (but less than 60 seconds). The correct call is 'watch /(modem port)'. Good luck, Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO There is 1 Reply. #: 14608 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Mar-92 14:33:11 Sb: #14605-TOP mmon Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) watch /t1--> thanks Ed, and thanks for the library # of the dox files. Appreciate your help. jim #: 14584 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Mar-92 03:50:36 Sb: #14540-#TOP mmon Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Looked at my distribution disks and I include a lot of the TOP stuff (mostly for my convenience). As I recall, 'mmon' requires 'mmon.config' and 'sysinfo' be in your /dd/SYS directory. I also execute '/dd/etc/setup /dd/sys/sysinfo' and '/dd/etc/boot /term /t0 /t(n)' in the 'startup' files. I don't remember if these were absolutely necessary for 'mmon'. (It's been several years since I set this up but I don't remember why .) By default, mmon calls 'logon' (which requires the TOPS 'password' file and some other stuff) but you can specify MW's 'login' with the -p option. BTW, I also use 'csh' as opposed to the MW shell most of the time as well as several other TOP utilities. Your best bet is to check the docs (in TOP6). If you've copied the docs to your system and converted them to '.man' files, you can read them by entering 'man '. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO There is 1 Reply. #: 14596 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Mar-92 07:33:00 Sb: #14584-TOP mmon Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, Thanks for the info. I've got mmon.config and sysinfo in /dd/sys. I've modified sysinfo (it's only a table, jes?) to use MW's login (should be the same thing as the -p option you make mention of). I'll review the file list fo r setup and see where we go from there. This damn '0ne behind problem' just hit again while I'm online and typing the response. Time to reboot ..... again! Steve #: 14585 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Mar-92 04:27:33 Sb: #14540-TOP mmon Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Picked up your message just before I posted my response to you. If you don't get it working right in the next week or so, let me know. I'll go back and see why I do what I do . Jim Sutemeier said he is having similar problems but he also said he has 'watch' working. Interesting, I never got 'watch' to work right. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO #: 14556 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 19:14:54 Sb: #OS9/6809 emulator on OSK Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: 100016,3417 (X) Could anyone/anybody please help me clearing my mind. I have been dreaming about a OS-9/6809 emulator running umder OS-9/68K. Is this a dream or is it true ??? If it is true, how is it available ??? There are 2 Replies. #: 14587 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Mar-92 04:28:29 Sb: #14556-OS9/6809 emulator on OSK Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ole hansen 100016,3417 (X) Ole, Yes, Bob Santy wrote an OS-9/6809 Emulator for OSK. We sell it. Give me a call if you want more info. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO 302-378-2555 #: 14598 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Mar-92 23:27:29 Sb: #14556-OS9/6809 emulator on OSK Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: ole hansen 100016,3417 (X) If it is Basic09 programs you have in mind, the OSK runb is compatable - that is, Basic09 programs that run on the 6809 runb also run with the 68000 runb. Robert #: 14601 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Mar-92 10:09:18 Sb: #MM/1 advice Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: CArl 71076,76 (X) Carl, Mark told me that he mentioned my MM/1 lockup problems in your telephone conversation yesterday. And further indicated that you might have noticed something similar yourself. Could I get you to review the message thread starting at 14539 in Section 12 and offer an opinion? It's fun stuff ... and I do enjoy a mystery, but not having the ability to dial in remotely has hampered how I 'do business'. :-) Thanks for the help! Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 14617 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Mar-92 09:45:09 Sb: #14601-MM/1 advice Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Oh boy. I think he said it looked like an interaction with windows but that seemed impossible and I said there was a version of windows that munged the hard disk driver, so it certainly was possible. We didn't solve that except by accident - the problem went away with a different version of windows. Who knows what else it was stepping on. I will review the thread and perhaps offer some better advise. #: 14619 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Mar-92 11:25:31 Sb: #14601-MM/1 advice Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I've read the thread. It sounds more like a driver problem or buffer overrun problem since it seems to happen on /t2. RE: msg14607 - does the off by one happen on /t3 or /t4 given similar treatment (page dump from the terminal). Are you running the latest versions of the drivers? Do you have (or can you get) stat901? Run irqs and use the static location as the arg to stat901 from a working window and see if it shows an off by one condition on the pointers. #: 14602 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Mar-92 18:25:01 Sb: #MM/1 Sound Sampler Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All All MM/1 Owners: Mike Knudsen has uploaded (actually, Paul Ward uploaded it) his sound record and playback program into DL12. This is a simple utility, but it has all the functionality needed to make some really good sound files with the MM/1. It has the ability to sample at rates up to 44 Khz which is actually slightly BETTER than CD quality sound. Of course, the time you can sample is severly limited at this rate, but several seconds of good quality sounds can be sampled at lower rates. For example, about 31 Khz is considered good FM stereo qualtiy sounds. The program samples in stereo, so at 44 Khz, it needs 88K of memory for EACH second of sound. Yikes! Keep this in mind. I'm looking forward to all the sound samples that will begin to be uploaded soon. At least we can get away from playing with the inferior sound samples from Macs and IBMs now. Go to it guys! Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14603 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Mar-92 21:01:16 Sb: #14602-#MM/1 Sound Sampler Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Picking nits, but CD's are done at 44.1 Khz (has to do with aliasing frequencies). Yup - stereo sampling eats storage. In direct to hard disk recording packages sampling at the same rate, 1 minute of stereo eats about 10 meg of hard disk. This is why the recording folks are all buying large SCSI's (and being careful not to get the auto-calibrating kind [i.e. reek]). Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 14627 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Mar-92 07:09:13 Sb: #14603-#MM/1 Sound Sampler Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Petely, >Picking nits, but CD's are done at 44.1 Khz Hmmmmm.....I thought they were sampled at 41 Khz, hence my comment about the 44 Khz abilities of Mike's sound sampler program. Oh well, it is still right up there with the best quality sound. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14630 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Mar-92 09:15:09 Sb: #14627-MM/1 Sound Sampler Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 Roger... Even the most flexible pro DAT's and Samplers typically offer only 44.1 and 48 Khz. I understand a few samplers offer higher resolution (50Khz+), but that's a diminishing return, as I perceive it. You're right... 44.1 Khz sounds durned good. Pete #: 14636 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Mar-92 17:23:46 Sb: #MM/1 Video Pinout???? Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: 76703,4227 (X) Kevin: 1) What is the pinout of the MM/1 Video connector?? Here is some of the specs. on the monitor that I have. ViewPerfect 3 Multisync monitor (A NEC 3D CLONE) VGA ANALOG MODE (NOTE 3) 1 - Red (NOTE 1) 2 - Green (NOTE 1) 3 - Blue (NOTE 1) 4 - H. Sync 5 - V. Sync 6 - RED Ground 7 - GREEN Ground 8 - BLUE Ground 9 - Ground Synchronization Horizontal 15.5kHz to 36kHz Auto-Scanning Range Vertical 50 to 100Hz Resolution Non-Interlaced Interlaced Horizontal 810 Dots 1024 Dots Vertical 670 Lines 768 Lines Size 14 inch diagonal Dot pitch 0.29 mm NOTE 1 - means 0.7 Vo-p (VIDEO) NOTE 2 - NOTE 3 - For VGA Mode, please use 9-15 pin optional adaptor There is 1 Reply. #: 14637 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Mar-92 21:14:48 Sb: #14636-MM/1 Video Pinout???? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 This may be incomplete, but the pinout I have on disk is: 1 3 5 7 9 2 4 6 8 1 - n/c 2 - gnd 3 - R 4 - G 5 - B 6 - n/c 7 - n/c 8 - HS 9 - VS Press !> #: 14671 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Mar-92 09:10:53 Sb: #14617-MM/1 advice Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Well, Here's hoping that the final version of windows that Kev releases for distribution 'accidentally' cures this problem as well! I hope to have my last paddle board by Monday. With that installed, I'll move the terminal to /t1 and see if the problem moves with it. IF it does, since both ports are manged by the 901 driver, I'd have to say we've found the culprit. Thanks for whatever advice you can offer. Steve #: 14672 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Mar-92 09:16:42 Sb: #14619-MM/1 advice Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Carl, Thanks for reviewing the thread! I've moved the terminal to /t3 and found no problem at all. Incidentally, during the swap, the modem ended up on /t2. Trying to call CIS after that was interesting. A 'fuzzy' box appears as soon as sterm fires up and then it's dropped character city. Reminded me of the IRQ problem with the CoCo at high speed. Dropping the baud rate from 2400 to 1200 had no noticeable effect. Once I get a few more of the seral ports easily available (Mark's making a few cables for me), I'll investigate this a bit more. Still could be nothing more that a flow control issue. I've found my PPI modem to be a bit contrary in somme situations. :-) Steve #: 14673 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Mar-92 09:18:32 Sb: #14618-MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 Thanks for the comments Bill, (and I apologize for not responding sooner. Various hardware problems at the office have had me consumed for the last couple of weeks.) I'm expecting the /t1 paddle board Monday. With that installed, I can do a bit more testing on teh driver theory. Steve #: 14674 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Mar-92 09:20:11 Sb: #14628-MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Heheheh .... yeah ...as impossible as it seems, I did consider sterm for a breif moment. Had to rule it out of my list of possible problems. Steve #: 14691 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Mar-92 21:34:45 Sb: #14672-MM/1 advice Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I strongly suspect there is a buffering problem in the 901 driver. I looked at a listing and it looks ok. I will have to get some hardware and check it out, I think. #: 14719 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Mar-92 14:47:14 Sb: #14262-Ultra-Science Windows Fm: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 I did get screens to work--- but not on vt70 only on gwindows (the demo). I beleive it will work on a terminal as well. Vt70 nis just too buggy (and is supposed to be in the process of being rewritten) #: 14743 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Mar-92 21:37:35 Sb: Timing Help Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Has anyone done much work with timed sleeps? I think I've found a bug in the sleep command--when the high bit of the value is set (as per MW instructions) it does not time 1/256 seconds accurately. Look at the following test code: main() { register int t; /* this gives "exactly" 10 seconds delay */ system("date"); for(t=10;t;t--) tsleep(0x80000000 + 256); /* however, this gives only about 7 sec... */ system("date"); for(t=256;t;t--) tsleep(0x80000000 + 10); /* and this gives only about 1 second */ system("date"); for(t=2560;t;t--) tsleep(0x80000000 + 1); system("date"); } As the comments indicate, the smaller the duration, the greater the error. If anything, the loops with the short sleep values should give more than 10 seconds delay due to the loop overhead. Or am I doing this all wrong? Oh, I'm using OSK 2.4 on a mm/1. #: 14745 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Apr-92 01:36:53 Sb: #GNU C Compiler Fm: Mark Sours 70372,1370 To: 70673,1754 (X) Can anyone tell me if either of the new C compilers will work on a one meg Atari ST. Does anyone know of any OSK users that operate on Atari ST's. There are 2 Replies. #: 14753 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 01:10:10 Sb: #14745-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Tom Birt 76640,1205 To: Mark Sours 70372,1370 (X) Mark, I know of two other Atari OSK users besides you, K. Darling and myself. Their names are, Mel Smith and Farrell Kenimer (both OS9CN members). Tom Birt, OS9CN Editor P.S. Don't hesitate to join our rapidly expanding (and improving) group. There are 3 Replies. #: 14754 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 01:23:38 Sb: #14753-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Mark Sours 70372,1370 To: Tom Birt 76640,1205 (X) Thanks for the info on other St Oskers, how do I join your group? I used to have a CoCo with Level II and I went to the ST five years ago because it would run OSK. But the floor fell out and I have no idea where I can find OSK stuff for the ST. If the program is located in DL 12 will it run on my ST? I need a C compiler but I would hate to pay MW 600 bucks for just the C compiler. I saw the new C compiler on this service but I'd hate to DL it and find out it won't work on my system. Anyway any help will for the most part will be all the help I get.. There is 1 Reply. #: 14756 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 01:34:38 Sb: #14754-GNU C Compiler Fm: Tom Birt 76640,1205 To: Mark Sours 70372,1370 (X) Please leave your name, address and phone number here, I'll take care of the rest (on joining the OS9CN). There are alot of 'generic' OSK programs that will run on the STs, unfortunately there are too many MM/1 specific programs at this time. Graphics standards need to be established along the same lines as TERMCAP (for text screen handling), so incompatabilities don't _kill_ the blossoming OSK market. My advice to you on DLing the GNU set, is to wait for my (or someone elses) report on its performance. Tom Birt #: 14759 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 07:54:08 Sb: #14753-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Tom Birt 76640,1205 (X) Hi Tom... Bob Santy also runs Atari OS9; he developed his 6809 emulator on it. And there are a coupla Microware guys who run it, too. Anyone else out there? There is 1 Reply. #: 14778 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Apr-92 20:25:15 Sb: #14759-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Tom Birt 76640,1205 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin (or do you prefer Kev?), it would be nice to assemble a list of machine types and the number of users (using OSK). Has anyone started such a list? Since this message is totally off subject, why not go for broke. :)* Have you ever made any revisions to your Atari windows since v19? Has anyone else expressed any interest in adding back key repeat? Since I got 'hooked' on CoCo3 windows, I'll never go back to any other type. Although I would like to peek at the G windows version originally developed on the 1040ST. Take care. Tom There is 1 Reply. #: 14782 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Apr-92 01:50:52 Sb: #14778-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Tom Birt 76640,1205 (X) Hi Tom. Kevin or Kev is fine (whichever you have enough strength to type :). A lot of people enter their name and other info in the member directory of the forum. I'm not sure of the new way of getting to it, but "mem" used to do it. Then you can add information, or search by name or interest. Perhaps we should razz people into updating their entries? Yah, I did a fancier version of the ST windows, but then my mouse died and I couldn't check its operation out. Thx for reminder; I owe everyone some version of it. Lemme see what I can dig up. Keep after me! kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14793 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Apr-92 21:34:37 Sb: #14782-GNU C Compiler Fm: Tom Birt 76640,1205 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) I will definitely keep you aware of a need for a ST windows upgrade. Today I'm going to upgrade my 520ST, from 1M to 2M, then I'll try using the GNU set. BTW, have you heard of any domestic Atari OSK licensees? Tom P.S. The BOD of the OS9CN would like to know if you have the time to get involved in our activities. #: 14764 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 23:11:54 Sb: #14753-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Tom Birt 76640,1205 (X) I am an Atari OSK user too. Probably one of the first around here. On another note, what does the OS9CN editor do? I joined several months ago and have heard nothing from your group. I did finally get a response to a message I emailed to John Wight but it didn't really clear anything up. Carl There are 2 Replies. #: 14767 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Apr-92 02:57:12 Sb: #14764-GNU C Compiler Fm: Tom Birt 76640,1205 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) line noise is severe, systeem (CIS) going down in 3 minutes, will continue at a later time. Tom Carl, that's a good question. I am the 3rd editor this group has had, so far. Of the 3 newsletters that have been composed, one could have created them, likw so: OS9: merge file1 file2 file3 > new.newsletter. I intend to improve this method somewhat, by actuaGq,~?~?~?~?/exit #: 14779 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Apr-92 21:06:13 Sb: #14764-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Tom Birt 76640,1205 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Let me try to clear up any questions you may have about the OS9CN. As I tried to express last night (but line noise and system time prohibited) a true newsletter (NetNews) is in the works (hard copy, pending the BOD's approval), but an ASCII disk file should be available on your local regional librarians board. I will UL the April NetNews here, as soon as possible (pending its completion). The theme of this months newsletter is communications, meaning how can we best keep in touch through the most popular msg. bases. If you or someone you know would like to submit an article on the simplest methods for using (and finding) these networks, it would be very much appreciated. Since the name of this user group implies it's network nature, I think our first priority should be to show everyone interested in OS-9, how to make his/her connection to our services. Tom P.S. We now have representatives of the OS9CN on all major msg. networks. There is 1 Reply. #: 14810 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 20:54:17 Sb: #14779-GNU C Compiler Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Tom Birt 76640,1205 Thanks for the reply. It does raise two questions of mine - how do I find the 'local regional librarians board' to look at the newsletter and, in addition to 'how to connect to your services', what are your services. You should also make it a priorty to give people who send in mail in response to your posted requests for membership some feedback so they don't think you are vapour like I did. #: 14755 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 01:24:04 Sb: #14745-GNU C Compiler Fm: Tom Birt 76640,1205 To: Mark Sours 70372,1370 (X) This msg. is to answer your first question (will GNU work on a 1M ST?). I believe it requires 4M. I have DLed the entire GNU set, but haven't tried it out. I have bought a 4M bare board upgrade ($39), but have only purchased 2M of DRAM (want to make sure it works first). I'll let you know about the upgrade and the GNU operation as soon as possible. Tom Birt #: 14749 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Apr-92 14:00:47 Sb: #14636-MM/1 Video Pinout???? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) OUCH. Kevin Pease called me this morning to tell me that the video port file (which I got from somewhere :-) was laid out wrong. Here's the right one, I hope: (looking at the female port) 5 4 3 2 1 9 8 7 6 1 - n/c 2 - gnd 3 - R 4 - G 5 - B 6 - n/c 7 - n/c 8 - HS 9 - VS #: 14760 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 21:19:31 Sb: #more serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl (and Kev), I recently completed adding the remaining serial ports to my MM/1. I now have all five ports available. On the surface .... they all work. /t2,/t3 and /t4 have always functioned, so I tested /t0 and /t1 by swapping a terminal to each port, firing up a shell and issuing a few commands. But, when I try something a bit more intense I find I have more serial weridness. For instance, with a terminal on /t0 and a shell active, I fire up my com program with the following command: sterm -l /t3 As soon as I get any activity from sterm, the port is locked up. (other port still function). Attempting to kill the process on /t0 will lock up the entire machine. The same thing will happen if I use Kermit. Mark muttered somthing about interupts, so I grabbed a snapshot with the IRQS command: OS9 St. Louis MM/1 OS-9/68K V2.4 (max devs: 32, max irqs: 32) vector prior port addr data addr irq svc driver device ------- ----- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ 28 (4) 1 $00e00291 $0017b710 $0000e252 sc68681 t4 28 (4) 1 $00e00281 $0016e520 $0000e252 sc68681 t3 28 (4) 2 $00e00000 $001ffdc0 $0001b912 scsi_mm1d 28 (4) 5 $00e00381 $001f5560 $0000d8d0 sc68901 t2 29 (5) 1 $009ffc41 $001f9814 $00014f94 keydrv 29 (5) 3 $009ffc00 $00000000 $0000c098 tk68901 29 (5) 5 $009ffc01 $001877a0 $0000d8d0 sc68901 t1 29 (5) 9 $009ffcc1 $001f2140 $00019c1c rb37c65 d0 29 (5) 255 $009ffc0d $001f2e10 $0000ce7c sc68070 t0 Immediately the 255 priority on /t0 strikes me as odd. (more in the reply) There are 2 Replies. #: 14761 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 21:20:41 Sb: #14760-more serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Next, I start to compare the values found in the above table with those found by using moded on the various descriptors. What I find is that for all of the descriptors _except_ for /t0, values for vector, pirority and port address match. Moded reports a vector of 60, priority of 5 and an address of $80002011 on /t0. Further testing and playing uncovers another bit of weirdness. With a shell on /t1 (and showing up in the IRQS table), any request of the floppy will lock up the machine. Only a reboot will fix it. The same this _does not_ happen with /t2. (I'm guessing this would rule out the 901 driver causing this problem along with the my 'one-off' problem). Looking at the IRQS table, I notice that the port address for /t1 is one byte higher than the clock. I wonder if this is significant, given the gap between other devices is at least 10. Not knowing what the heck I'm talking about reduces me to just reporting what I see. I hope it's helpful. Ideas? Do I have an interupt problem or should I go looking elsewhere? Steve #: 14765 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 23:14:02 Sb: #14760-#more serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I have captured your message. I agree that t0 looks flakey (255 et. al.) so the best thing I can recommend is that you help Mark find time to mail me some boards so I can look into it ;) Carl There are 3 Replies. #: 14769 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Apr-92 07:33:31 Sb: #14765-#more serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Consider it don, Carl! ---> Hey Mark! Bring that board in to the office today, We'll have Pat find a suitable box and ship it post haste! Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14809 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 20:46:00 Sb: #14769-#more serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I spent a bit of time staring at your problem, and I think you may in fact have several. We know there is something wrong with the 901 driver because it gets in the 'one behind' mode. But your are right about t0 not looking right. The address is wrong and the priority is wrong. The address is actually that of the interrupt pending register B. It seems like something or someone has overwritten them. Since that register does deal with floppy and hard disk I/O, perhaps it isn't too surprising that floppy access can hang the system. Can Mark or anyone else duplicate those results? Carl There is 1 Reply. #: 14820 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 19:37:26 Sb: #14809-more serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Carl, A message today from John W. confirms the lock up problem when accessing the floppy also occurs on his machine. Mark's following this thread and I hope will attempt to duplicate the problems as well. I'll pester him at the office tomorrow about it. BTW ... the CPU board left today via overnight delivery. You should have it in the morning. Steve #: 14781 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Apr-92 22:25:37 Sb: #14765-#more serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) By the way ... Mark passed along a copy of the new sc68681 driver for me to bash on (as long as I'm bashing! :-) ) What problem does it fix? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14811 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 20:56:36 Sb: #14781-more serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Pretty trivial in the usual case. Has to do with baud table selection not working right with certain baud combinations, like 9600 on one port and 19200 on the other or some such. #: 14802 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 10:20:46 Sb: #14765-#more serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, Mark mentioned to me on Saturday he'd be sending off the cpu board to you on Monday. In the meantime, a little more testing on my part has yielded a bit more info that might be helpful as you desk test. I removed both the sc60870 and sc68901 updated drivers from my bootfile, replacing each with the distribution versions and got some interesting results. (appropriate descriptors were also replaced) Relative to the /t0 problems, there wasn't any significat change in performance. The port still locked up trying to run a telcom program and accessing /d0 with /t1 active locked up the machine. What was interesting was that /t0 no longer shows up in the IRQS display. Now onto slightly better news: The 'one-off' problem doesn't appear while using the older version of the 901 driver. However, the port locks up frequently enough to make it unusable in my application. (might be related to the smaller buffer sizes?) In any event, I wanted to pass along what symptoms I can duplicate. Perhaps it's helpful. Thanks for your efforts, Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 14806 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 14:47:23 Sb: #14802-#more serial wierdness Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Hey Steve, Just thought I would drop a note in here to tell you that you are not alone with the serial wierdies. I noticed the 'one off' problem on both /t0 and /t1. I also can lock up every thing by trying to access any floppy drive when there is a shell running on /t1. My solution (after I got the tech manual and found out how to do it was to reconfigure the paddle board (I only have one) to use /t3 (unplugged /t1 and made a little cable). I figure I'll ignore /t1 until somebody smarter than me fixes it. For the (old) /t0 lockup problem (it gets hung up if it sees something at the wrong baud rate), I have a little program called 'guardian' that was uploaded to DELPHI by Randy Wilson. It watches for an error in the on-board 68070 serial port and resets it. Watching this thread with interest. John Wainwright There is 1 Reply. #: 14819 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 19:33:48 Sb: #14806-more serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 John, Thanks for the confirmation of problems. It's good to know it's not just me. Steve #: 14813 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 22:01:06 Sb: #14802-more serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) The problem with the old 901 driver locking up didn't have anything to do with buffer sizes. It sounds like the 'off by one' feature was introduced with the variable buffer sizes, though. #: 14762 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Apr-92 21:26:40 Sb: #14618-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, additional serial problems have shown up . Could I get you to review my latest posting here and see what if anything you might be able to duplicate on your end? Let's see ... you have /t1 and /t3 jes? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14775 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Apr-92 11:27:09 Sb: #14762-#MM/1 help Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I haven't installed /T1 yet. I don't have /T3 yet. I have had similar problems with /T0 locking up, and I have tried to kill a process (in this case "rz") on /T0 which locked up the machine. I don't know enough about interrupts on the MM/1 to comment, but something does look a little funny. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 14780 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Apr-92 22:20:53 Sb: #14775-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) So the output of an IRQS command shows a similar priority for you? I'd like to have it confirmed on another machine so I can rule out cockpit error. Tonight I went as far as booting up with my "no-windows-terminal-only" boot disk to rule out a windowing confict. Same results. Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 14785 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Apr-92 05:08:46 Sb: #14780-#MM/1 help Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Here's my IRQS output with 1 process on /t0, you right 255 priority. IMS MM/1 68070 Computer 2 Meg System OS-9/68K V2.4 (max devs: 32, max irqs: 32) vector prior port addr data addr irq svc driver device ------- ----- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ 28 (4) 2 $00e00000 $001ffa60 $000234f6 scsi_mm1d 28 (4) 5 $00e00381 $001f5c30 $000180b0 msdrv 29 (5) 1 $009ffc41 $001f6264 $000175ac keydrv 29 (5) 3 $009ffc00 $00000000 $0000bec6 tk68901 29 (5) 9 $009ffcc1 $001f3870 $00021800 rb37c65 d0 29 (5) 255 $009ffc0d $001f5d60 $000185b4 sc68070 t0 57 (1) 2 $80004040 $001f3870 $000218ae rb37c65 d0 57 (1) 2 $80004040 $001ffa60 $00023500 scsi_mm1d 59 (3) 1 $80001001 $001f6264 $00017274 windio w1 (?) 59 (3) 5 $80002011 $001f5d60 $0001895e sc68070 t0 60 (4) 5 $80002011 $001f5d60 $0001894e sc68070 t0 62 (6) 2 $80004000 $001f6264 $00017ae4 snddrv - Mike - /ex There is 1 Reply. #: 14786 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Apr-92 07:38:44 Sb: #14785-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Thanks for the confirmation, Mike. Later today I'm gonna drop back to pre-update versions of both the sc68070 and sc68901 drivers and see if that doens't give me a temporary fix. I'll keep you posted. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14807 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 16:07:31 Sb: #14786-#MM/1 help Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) If your are keeping track, my /t0 shows a prior of 255 too. Doesn't seem to cause any problems tho. Mind you, I don't have the other serial ports yet. Just /t0 and /ms.... There is 1 Reply. #: 14821 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 19:42:12 Sb: #14807-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, If you could .... even though you don't have the paddle boards, you can attempt to duplicate some of these problems. For instance, load the sc68901 driver (if you don't already have it in memory), along with /t1. Start a shell on /t1 with a Shell -l <>>>/t1& Confirm it with the DEVS and IRQS command. Now ... attempt to access the floppy. Let me know what happens. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14825 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 21:23:49 Sb: #14821-#MM/1 help Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I talked to Paul today, and he promised that paddle board would be sent "right away"! When I get it I'll try this again, but without a /t1 board I get a real nice result when I try to access /t1--total system hangup. No keyboard, nothing. This happens if I just do an 'iniz /t1' or attempt to start up a shell. I don't think that this SHOULD be happening? BTW, any idea what the sc68681 driver is for? There is 1 Reply. #: 14826 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 21:34:53 Sb: #14825-MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 Bob, The sc68681 driver is for /t3 and /t4. I'm not too surprised at your lock up, the serial stuff seems to have a few problems that need to be worked out. When you did your test ... what was /t0 doing? Steve #: 14814 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 22:02:40 Sb: #14780-#MM/1 help Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Could you elaborate on 'same result'? Did /t0 still exhibit the wierdness? You are not booting with any mouse stuff are you? There is 1 Reply. #: 14822 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 19:52:10 Sb: #14814-MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Carl, When I went back to the distrubiton drivers and descriptors, I wasn't using any mouse related stuff at all. I've had that commented out of my boot file until just recently. To clarify my 'same result' statement: With the older version of sc68070 and /t0 in use with a shell running on the terminal connected to /t0 (which appears to function fine), invoking sterm on the terminal (using /t3 for the modem port ___ i.e. sterm -l /t3) will lock up the port immediately upon sterm displaying it's opening screen. Attempting to kill the sterm process at the console (/term) will lock up the machine. Using kermit instead of sterm nets the same result. The only difference I noticed using the older version of /t0 and it's driver was no entry appeared in either DEVS or IRQS for /t0 even though it had been attached. Steve #: 14770 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Apr-92 07:38:13 Sb: serial weirdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) JJ, Take a peek at my posting in 14760. Will you see if you can duplicate any of it on your set up? Does an IRQS show the same weirdness for you? Thanks! Steve #: 14804 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 13:53:08 Sb: #MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: all Hi all... Just received my copy of the 'MM/1 Technical Manual'. Anybody else got one yet? Are you as disappointed as I am? Seems kinda thin and vague considering that it costs $50.00. Instead of giving you information, it lists references of where to get the information. I guess I'll have to shell out more time and money to get this info, but I kinda thought it would be in the tech manual... There is 1 Reply. #: 14805 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 14:30:21 Sb: #14804-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, What information were you expecting in the tech manual that isn't there? I know Mark is planning a revision, so perhaps your input would be timely. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14812 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Apr-92 21:48:08 Sb: #14805-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Hi Steve... Specifically, I would like some information on getting at the guts of the VSC chip - how to program it, how to use the pixel accelerator functions, etc. All the (oops) "tech manual" tells us is that there is a chip called the VSC and that it controls the video output. Not much help there. All the information in there seems kinda like that. It mentions stuff, but doesn't go into any detail at all. I like to program in assembler and I like to sometimes 'cheat' and go directly to hardware without letting the OS handle it. Must be my coarse RSDOS upbringing, I guess... I thought a tech manual was supposed to explain in detail everything about the machine hardwarewise, rather than just brush over things... I'm not saying the manual is totally useless, but so far it hasn't enlightened me a hell of a lot.M (oops) Guess Signetics wouldn't let IMS reprint their spec sheets?? That seems kinda dumb, if they want to sell products... I don't know what the problem is, but I want more for my $50!!! There are 3 Replies. #: 14815 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 02:46:08 Sb: #14812-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, If I may jump in, I too have the MM1 technical manual, and your right it didn't get very deep in the hardware. But there is a solution, and it only costs a phone call. If you call Phillips/Signetics, they will send you a load of stuff.. Just call and ask for data books/sheets on the following Hardware & Software manuals for SCC68070 Phillips # 9398-651-50011 SCC68070 User Manual 1990 Part 1 9398-650-40011 SCC68070 User Manual 1990 Part 2 Software oops- Part 1 should be Part 1 Hardware For the SCC66470 Video & systen Controller Phillips # 98-8066-470 SCC66470 Data Sheet The number I have for Signitics is (408)-991-2000 You will be suprised at what they will send you for free, the SCC66470 Data Sheet, is actually 60 pages of info on the vsc, while those user manuals are like some of the programming books you have probably paid quite a bit for. If you are also interested in the I^C stuff built into the 68070, then also ask for the.. I^C Peripherals for Microcontrollers Phillips # 98-8080-574 They will even send you a Master product catalog # 98-1000-000-05 without even asking. You will think its Christmas, when all the stuff shows up ;-) I hope this helps Larry Olson There is 1 Reply. #: 14829 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 22:28:45 Sb: #14815-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 Hi Larry... That's exactly what I want! Thanks - I'll give Signetics a call tomorrow... #: 14817 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 06:46:31 Sb: #14812-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, >Specifically, I would like some information on getting at the >guts of the VSC chip - how to program it, how to use the pixel >accelerator functions, etc. All the (oops) "tech manual" tells >us is that there is a chip called the VSC and that it controls >the video output. If you care to call the numbers I give, or write to the addresses, you'll get SEVERAL BOOKS on just the VSC. Yes, all the information on the VSC covers three different books. And I mean books of over 100 pages each. It was not that Signetics didn't allow IMS to reprint them, it was just too much to be included in the tech manual. If I had re-written all of that or just re-printed it and included it in the manual, it would have driven the price up to well over $100. Would you think that was a bargan? What I did give was some specifics on the different devices where they apply to the MM/1. If you could have figured all this out on your own then you wouldn't have needed the tech manual. As it is, with the tech manual and the manufacturer docs, you have all you need to "cheat" when you didn't have that before. If you think the price should be lower, then talk to Paul Ward. If you want to complain about the contents some more, then I'm the one to talk with. Mark #: 14823 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 20:02:39 Sb: #14812-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 Glen, I see you have a couple of replies already telling you what suggestions I would have to offer. In fact, I really need to call Signetics myself and get the hardware info for my files. You'll be pleased with what you get for just a phone call. I tend to agree there needs to be a bit more info in the manual for the price it carries. In talking with Mark, he mentions that he had planned on including all the window stuff as well as addtional driver info but printing deadlines conflicted with developer deadlines and the manual had to move ahead without it. Paul Ward happened to call me today and I passed on your concerns about the manual. He's asked that I have you call him to discuss the situation. He's kicking around a few ideas about a manual update that I think you'd be interested in. Steve #: 14824 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 20:37:10 Sb: Your TC70 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 Kev, So... Kev... Now that you've had your TC70 for awhile now... When can we expect to see the 'final' KWindows port done??? huh huh huh :) Frank #: 14827 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 21:43:37 Sb: 600 baud on /t0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: All An unexpected feature of /t0 showed up over the weekend. It would appear that this port can not support 600 baud. You can xmode the descriptor to the appropriate value, but attempting any type of use of that port (just an iniz, for example) and a 240 error will result. Why a drive error happens, I'm not too sure, but happen it does. With my 5 serial ports in operation, I had plans on having my X10 controller hooked to /t0 (thus the 600 baud), a tube on /t1, a critter on /t2 and a couple of modems on /t3 and /t4. Looks as if I may have to swap the tube and X10. This bit of trivia wasn't in the manual that came with the computer, nor did I recall seeing it in the Tech manual. However, I'm told it's covered in the technical info from Signetics. Thought I'd pass this on to other MM/1 users ... and I'd expect a similar feature on a TC70's /term port. Steve Press !> #: 14830 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 22:33:51 Sb: #14817-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark... Nope, I'm done complaining. I'll give Signetics and the others a call and see what info I can dig up. As for Paul Ward, all I want from him is my OSK manuals and an IO board. I guess if the price had to be $50 for the manual, he must have had his reasons. I know labor aint cheap. Bye... #: 14847 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Apr-92 20:57:58 Sb: #14817-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 While we're on the subject of the tech manual, I just got mine. Noticed an error on page 12.2 re the P1 jumpers. Pin 2 is not BUSY, rather it is connected to the P5 jumper pin 1/2 to enable AUTO FEED XT. The printer BUSY line (#11 on the centronics pinout) is not connected to the MM/1 (a design error in my humble opinion). Would have been nice to have BUSY connected to one of the many unused 68230 ports. Also, in the tech manual, it would have been nice to the pin assignments to the various chip ports listed. Well, that's what I think. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong. #: 14831 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Apr-92 22:39:17 Sb: #14823-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 Hi Steve... I'm going to get in trouble with Mark again, but here goes: I usually expect a tech manual to include detailed info on everything (hardware and some software). I guess that since the manufacturers will send you stuff for free that I don't need to complain about the lack of detail in some areas. But $50 does seem a little much for what you get. I saw tech manuals for the CoCo years ago - they were very good, as I recall. Anyway, enough griping. Must see what happens... #: 14833 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Apr-92 00:50:02 Sb: #14829-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, They will also send you a Data Handbook order form, which lists currently available publications. When I was looking up those publication numbers, I see another one that might be good to have... Phillips # 9398-373-80011 Development and System Evaluation for the SCC68070 I don't have that one...yet, looks like I'll be making another call :-) II hope you didn't have any trouble reading my reply, I did it while on-line. I should gather all that info and upload it, so its there if anyone else asks about it. Larry There is 1 Reply. #: 14835 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Apr-92 01:34:25 Sb: #14833-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Hi Larry... Had no problem reading your reply. Thanks for the help. There is 1 Reply. #: 14836 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Apr-92 01:59:45 Sb: #14835-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, I just finished putting all that, plus some more, in a file that I will upload now, Glad to help There is 1 Reply. #: 14848 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Apr-92 21:41:34 Sb: #14836-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 Hi Larry... Thanks muchly! I see some (if not all) of that info is in the back of the tech manual, but if you're like me you'll not see it or ignore it. To have it all in one place where people will see it is a good idea. #: 14834 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Apr-92 01:21:44 Sb: #14827-600 baud on /t0 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 Yeah, it's kind of like finding out that, say, a disk driver didn't like 32 track disks. It's just not something you notice... until you have a use for it. The other baud rates it won't do are: 75, 110, 134.5, 1800, 3600, 7200 and 38400. So using teletypes with /t0 might be impossible, too :-) kev #: 14854 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 02:06:11 Sb: #14810-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Tom Birt 76640,1205 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) I'll answer in the order of your questions: On FidoNet (OS9), the regional libraries are posted monthly. On other networks, they have been posted irregularly (this should change to monthly, soon). Our services include: The NetNews 8 OS-9 file areas Member directory (international) Vendors listing (1st in 2 mos.) Job listing (time?) Microware (and other relevant vendor's) product announcements Our former secretary was overburdened with too many resposibilities. Her duties are now assumed by two officers. If I can help answer any other questions you may have, concerning the OS9CN, please feel free to ask. Tom Birt - OS9CN Editor There is 1 Reply. #: 14868 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 21:48:48 Sb: #14854-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Tom Birt 76640,1205 (X) Thanks very much for the answers and candor. I have to admit to being a bit disappointed that the excitment that surrounded my sending in my membership request (at the prospect of some form of UG forming) was dashed by the months of silence that followed and the difficulty of getting a simple answer like yours from John, but maybe there is hope here after all. I hope I don't seem hostile, because that isn't the intent. Again, thanks very much. There are 2 Replies. #: 14875 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Apr-92 00:24:46 Sb: #14868-GNU C Compiler Fm: Tom Birt 76640,1205 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 We certainly have drifted off of the subject of the GNU compiler, but I hope our correspondance will help all who read this thread to become interested in getting involved with the OS9CN. It should become a real "shot in the arm" for perpetuating interest in my (and I hope your) favorite operating system. Stay tuned here for further news on our communications progress (with the proper Sb: heading). :)* Tom Birt - OS9CN Editor #: 14877 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Apr-92 03:48:10 Sb: #14868-GNU C Compiler Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 This OS9CN sounds interesting. What is it?. #: 14891 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Apr-92 16:28:06 Sb: #14759-GNU C Compiler Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Yes, I must admit that I have an ST1040FM running OSK(V2.4), allthough I don't run it every night. The problem with the GNU-c-compiler is that it will most likely not run in the Atari, because of to little memory. The ansi-c-compiler is almost 500k in object when it is unpacked, and the C++ is over 700kb(it takes a bit to load it the first time). I have used it a bit, to port 'unix'-stuff to os9. Using the 'v7make' from top-munic-package and the GNU-c-compiler made the ports not so painfull as with Microwares compiler. regards ole #: 14855 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 02:49:58 Sb: #14848-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Yes, I just happen to catch a message that gave Signetics phone number. There is probably quite a number of people that would like that chip info, and don't know that it is available. We need to spread the word. Oh, I bet Signetics will like that ;-) There is 1 Reply. #: 14873 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 23:27:35 Sb: #14855-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Hi Larry... Yeah, I hope that a sudden flurry of requests for free info won't make them consider charging for it to pay for costs. Who knows? Guess it depends on how well they're doing financially... There is 1 Reply. #: 14876 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Apr-92 00:25:29 Sb: #14873-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Thats what I was wondering, if they would notice all the sudden requests, realize whats going on, and decide to make some money. Maybe not, it might be that a BIG company like them with lots of tax lawyers, uses these give-aways in a big tax write off. There is 1 Reply. #: 14921 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 03:08:41 Sb: #14876-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Hi Larry... Yah, probably so... #: 14858 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 15:21:17 Sb: #14830-#MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Do give Paul a call. He wants your feedback. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14874 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 23:30:37 Sb: #14858-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Hi Steve... Yeah I guess I should call Paul (PKW). I used to try several times a day when I was waiting for my base unit - was never able to get him on the line, though he did return my call once. I hope I still can't cause that probably means he's working hard on getting me my manuals and I/O board. #: 14856 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 06:37:20 Sb: #14847-MM/1 Tech Manual Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, You're right about that pinout on the parallel ports. I'll change it in the next edition. I did give Mark Sheffield pinouts for all the chips in the MM/1. Most of them did not appear though and I don't know why. Mark PS. I won't flame you. You are normally a good decent person. I tried lots of other methods to get some people to do things over the years and it all didn't work. #: 14864 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 20:36:34 Sb: Kwindows Fm: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 To: 76703,4227 (X) I am having trouble with the vt70 driver on my tc70.......random blank lines after using dynastar, cant see the top line on the magnavox monitor, the 24 line screen is hard to read since the characters are so narrow they fit over 100 on the screen, does not work with some software. I wonder if kwindows will make some improvments here. Does the version Frank is now selling use a different font or graphics mode? Does it hot key instantly between screens like coco windows or does it paint the screen in relatively slow brush strokes? I know that a volonteer is rewriting vt70 for vt100 emulation - will your current package be compatable? Do you have some docs for the do you have some docs for the package being sold? I s there a gif viewer for the tc70 under kwindows and does it show 256 colors? If frank pushes vga with the pcxt card adapter will kwindows be changed to work with it? What monitor are you using on your tc70 ? Do you feel it is sharp enough to use all day? Hope to hear from you soon... thanks for supporting the tc70! #: 14866 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 21:41:03 Sb: #14820-#more serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I got the board today 8-Apr-92. If you want proof to beat up the carrier I can provide it. I hope to be on the air in a day or so (have to go scrounge monitor and keyboard again - forgot about that) and with any luck at all I will be able to duplicate the problems. Usuall I can find it if I can see it ;). There is 1 Reply. #: 14870 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 22:11:05 Sb: #14866-more serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Great news, Carl! I'll let my shipping department know of the delay and let them take it up with the carrier. The important thing is you've got the board! Steve #: 14867 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 21:43:06 Sb: #14822-MM/1 help Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Ok. I understand. We may want to consider mailing me your boot file. I don't have any old stuff left around for the MM1. #: 14871 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Apr-92 22:12:18 Sb: #14822-MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) No problem on that, Carl. Let me know when you're ready and I'll shoot it to ya. Steve #: 14889 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Apr-92 08:32:55 Sb: #OLD OSK Manuals Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: all I have a stack of old OSK manuals for versions 2.0 and 2.1 that I am going to throw away unless someone has a need/use for them. Drop me a line in email SOON if you're interested. -J There is 1 Reply. #: 14903 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Apr-92 16:55:04 Sb: #14889-OLD OSK Manuals Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay, I'd be happy to stop by the house and take them off your hands if you're just gonna toss 'em. Steve #: 14890 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Apr-92 16:18:11 Sb: OS9MAX r/w OS9disk in PC Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: 71071,2003 (X) hello George. I have just posted 'OS9MAX'-demo in lib 12 of OSK. Unfortunate I couldn't find 'lharc', so had to use 'pkarc'. As this is a demo-version, there is some limitation in what you can do, but if those commands work, it is very unlikely, that the full-featured program should not work. best regards ole b. hansen 100016,3417 #: 14904 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Apr-92 18:30:53 Sb: #Mouseman and the MM/1? Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: 76070,41 (X) Mark: Is this any way to get a mouseman (righthanded) from Logitech to work with the MM/1? If a NEW driver needs to be written could you do it? I have model M-MC13 There is 1 Reply. #: 14926 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 09:07:21 Sb: #14904-#Mouseman and the MM/1? Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, The Mouseman is a Microsoft compatible mouse, not a Logitech compatible mouse. Go figure that one out. It would take a new driver, but I can't do it. The MM/1 mouse drivers are not drivers per se but interrupt handlers as far as I know. I don't know how it could be interfaced unless Kevin wants to make a mouse driver for the Microsoft mouse. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14932 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 14:37:26 Sb: #14926-#Mouseman and the MM/1? Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Kevin: So how about it, could you do it? See mess number 14904 Keith There is 1 Reply. #: 14941 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 20:32:10 Sb: #14932-Mouseman and the MM/1? Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 Keith, >So how about it, could you do it? No. Mark #: 14905 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Apr-92 18:34:50 Sb: STAR NX-1000 & the MM/1 Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: ALL I got my STAR NX-1000 Rainbow printer to work with the MM/1 you have to set LF to NOLF if you want to move it back and forth from a CoCo 3. You have to use SC68230.pols{le{~{oku! P.polled Keith #: 14912 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 01:10:10 Sb: #scsi formatting Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all I reformatted my scsi hard drive the other day (after a crash, but that's another story....). I found that doing a physical format really didn't do anything. Is there a way to do a real physical format on these? I would think that physical format should do all the neat stuff like allocating alternate tracks when bad sectors are found, etc.? There are 2 Replies. #: 14928 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 09:38:52 Sb: #14912-scsi formatting Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, >Is there a way to do a real physical format on these? If you have a Quantum or a Conner, no. I take it from your message that you did select a physical format but it only took a couple seconds. This is what the drives above do. They are already formatted from the factory and use a special format to get the increased speeds. When you send a SCSI format command to the drive, it just does a check on itself and returns a success (or something like that). If you need to do a real format, you'll have to send the drive out to a depot repair site or return to the manufacturer. You can still mark out bad sectors by doing a physical verify and it will mark out in the bitmap those sectors that it can't read. Mark #: 14935 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 16:58:44 Sb: #14912-scsi formatting Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) If you have a Quantum Drive, you can use the SCSI Mode Select command to set the "Fill Data Pattern Enable" bit in one of the Quantum Unique Drive Control Parameter pages. Then you can specify a data pattern in the SCSI Format Unit command. I have not actually done this myself, but this is what the "Product Manual" for my Quantum drive says. The Quantum drives seem to be so reliable that I just let the drive take care of itself. Well, most of the time anyway :) -J -J #: 14913 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 01:10:39 Sb: #terminal info needed Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Can anyone help me to decide on which terminal to purchase for my MM/1? I think I just want a text term which runs at 19,200? But I'm not sure what else to look for. Looking in The Shopper I see Wyse 30/40/50 and 150s. Not too much else. Anyone know the difference between the 30/40/50 models? Anyone got a good used tube for sale? There are 2 Replies. #: 14936 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 16:59:06 Sb: #14913-terminal info needed Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I personally like the Televideo 965 terminal. We used to get 955s until they were priced more than the 965. The 965 is a better terminal anyway. I like the fact that they are one of the few terminals on the market that DO NOT come with a BRAIN DAMAGED PC style keyboard layout (but this is just my opinion). It has a lot (16 I think) of programmable function keys. It has a good number of specially labled editing type keys like "page", "home" "line insert/delete", "char insert/delete," etc. The cursor keys are laid out in a reasonable pattern. The CTRL key is only separated from the "A" key by a caps lock key. I would have preferred that it be RIGHT next to the "A" but this is as close as they come (I looked at a lot of terminal keyboards). At least it isn't off down by the space bar. We've had some trouble with reliability of 955 keyboards but so far the 965 keyboards (which are newer) have not given us any trouble. The 965 can go at least 19.2 KB, if not 38.4. I know the 955 goes 38.4 but can't remember for sure if the 965 does. Since it is newer than the 955 I would expect it to. Just my .02. -J -J #: 14938 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 17:07:35 Sb: #14913-terminal info needed Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I'm running a Wyse 50 for the most part at home, with a Televideo clone I picked up for free on the porch. I also use Wyse 60's (I think) at the office. What I like about the Wyse is there is only 4 things to break: The keyboard, the tube, the power supply or mother board. Makes repairs a snap. Steve #: 14922 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 03:37:33 Sb: os9max Fm: George Hendrickson 71071,2003 To: 100016,3417 (X) Hi! I thought I'd let you know how OS9MAX went..First of all, I had trouble with the documentation. I can't read German although I'd like too. Interesting language... From what I could tell from the parameters thing, I was doing it correctly as far as I could tell but I couldn't read my 360k OS9 diskettes in my AT high density disk drive on my 386. any help would be appreciated. Thanks! #: 14933 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 14:40:21 Sb: Mouseman and the MM/1! Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 Kevin; See message 14904. Keith Press !> #: 14945 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Apr-92 22:38:19 Sb: #14932-#Mouseman and the MM/1? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith - as soon as i get a chance, I'll give it a shot; you can test it :) kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14966 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Apr-92 04:54:14 Sb: #14945-#Mouseman and the MM/1? Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin: Have a try at it, and I will test it out for you. P.S. When are the UPDATE DISK going to be complete? Thanks, Keith There is 1 Reply. #: 14969 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Apr-92 16:02:47 Sb: #14966-Mouseman and the MM/1? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith - we just had a hamfest here yesterday, and I picked up a mouse which switches between Microsoft and Mouseman mode... so I seem to have a MS compatible mouse driver working now. I'll send it on to Paul; the disk (update) will start going out tomorrow, I believe. One caveat: some mice don't seem to want to work on /t0 port. It doesn't seem to be a power thing; perhaps something about the way the driver sets up or doesn't set up RTS/etc. Dunno yet! best - kev #: 14948 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Apr-92 01:45:43 Sb: #14913-#terminal info needed Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I have 2 Wyse 60s with ASCII keyboards. I have had only one problem with them which was a blown transformer. A high official at Wyse made a BAD decision on the source! I was not charged for either replacement although both were out of warranty. The terminal will operate at speeds up to and including 38.4kb, will emulate many other terminals, has bultin calculator, 2 alarms, calandar. The ASCII keyboard has 16 programmable function keys, unshifted and shifted, totalling 32 available function keys. The control key is next to the "a" key and approximately 3 keywidths wider and the same height. This keyboard is so similar to a typewriter that I have had little problems adjusting. The Wyse 60 does not have the magic cookie problem the 50 has. The ASCII keyboard has a keypad for numeric entry including "+", "-", ",", and a large "enter" key. If you want more detail just let me know. Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 14950 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Apr-92 09:00:18 Sb: #14948-#terminal info needed Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X) Magic cookie problem? Bob ... please give me a few more details, eh? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14964 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Apr-92 02:38:56 Sb: #14950-terminal info needed Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Bob, My memory is very vague, but some terminals will use space on the terminal screen when certain escape sequences are printed. You will not expect that space to occur. I discovered the "magic cookie glitch" in the curses manual pages for SYSV (I think). Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me will correct/expand. Sorry. Bob #: 14958 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Apr-92 22:36:29 Sb: #14877-GNU C Compiler Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) I am on dangerous ground here, but the best I can get from them is that it is a bunch of people on the Fidonet who are calling themselves an os9 user group dedicated to improving communication with the different pockets of interest for os9 that exist - Fido, CIS, Genie, Delphi, UseNet, etc. To that end they publish an electronic newsletter which will eventually be distributed on all the services with os9 interest groups. Check Tom Birt here. He can give more details. #: 14976 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Apr-92 22:52:51 Sb: #serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Two messages in the last 24 hours? OS-9 must be dead. I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is I got the MM/1 to boot. The bad news is irqs does not show your priority/address anomaly on /t0 without two proper entries. Further bad news is that any access to t1 hoses the machine, with or without any floppy access. I have half a notion to try to get the board set back from Pease that I wrote this stuff on. Meantime, could you send my your bootfile? And old versions of the 901 and 070 drivers if you have them? Carl There is 1 Reply. #: 14979 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Apr-92 08:09:27 Sb: #14976-#serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Hmm ... sounds as if you're up to your neck! I'll be happy to shoot you the files requested. I'm running a 3meg machine ... is this a problem for you? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14981 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Apr-92 08:20:08 Sb: #14979-#serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I think not. I did manage to make a 1 meg init module, so am over that hump. Next large problem is why the drivers that work on the board from Pease hose the board from Mark. If I get past that, I can perhaps look at your problem. I say 'perhaps' because I'm getting spooked about taking anything as a given ;). My big problem with booting was that I did not realize the impact of having snddrv in the boot file if you don't have an I/O card installed. Windio (probably) links it and calls it to iniz stuff which tries to access hardware that doesn't exist and it goes boom. That took way too long to find. The wierd irq entry for t0 is pretty obvious in retrospect. The dcd is handled through the 901 since the 070 doesn't have provision. So it is on it's own vector. I think I gave it a priority of 255 to keep it at the head of the list (which may not really be important). So there is no wierdness there, only mis-understanding and really poor memory./ex There is 1 Reply. #: 14983 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Apr-92 21:30:38 Sb: #14981-#serial wierdness Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, >The wierd irq entry for t0 is pretty obvious in retrospect. The dcd is >handled through the 901 since the 070 doesn't have provision. So it is on >it's own vector. I mentioned this to Steve (the "split personality" of the driver) as a possible problem although I didn't see how it could be myself. I'm very unhappy about the drivers you have not working with the board I sent you. Last time I used that board for testing, it worked fine. Maybe something has gone wrong with it? If you need another board, I have one here that uses the "old" CM-8 style video connector. It works fine for awhile when first booted, but the video starts to flake out after about 30 to 60 minutes. No heat problem since resetting the machine always clears it up. Weird. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14986 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Apr-92 22:51:06 Sb: #14983-#serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Well..... this one seems a bit wierd too. I ohmed the video while making a cable and the green has continuity. Must be a bad video chip. Then it sometimes goes away when I fire up the debugger. Strange..... I don't have anything to connect to t1 to check it out - sent it all back. Can you help? Carl There is 1 Reply. #: 14998 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Apr-92 22:10:51 Sb: #14986-#serial wierdness Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, Yeah, the video circuit is OK. Like you said, it is probably a bad VSC cause changing the pallette controller doesn't help. Weird that it sometimes shows up...I never saw that. I don't have any completed paddle boards right now. Is that what you need? Or do you just need a cable? Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15013 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Apr-92 21:57:21 Sb: #14998-serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Panic off.... I kluged a paddle board from the 030 onto the MM/1 so I am up and running. Takes more time to do that crap than find the bugs. Oh well. Thanks anyway. #: 14987 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Apr-92 22:52:32 Sb: #serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: 76703,4255 (X) Only fools and masochists program in assembler. There isn't much difference between d0 and d2, is there? I put a bug in when I added the variable buffer size code at the last minute. The biggest problem is that now it usually doesn't crash on an iniz of t1, but sometimes it does. And sometimes it crashes just running the debugger. Arrgghh.... So if you are in a patchy mood, change $30 to $32 at $78 in sc68901 and tell me if it helps. If you aren't feeling patchy, perhaps some other kind lurker who has discovered this trouble can try it. Then we get to the next problem - I don't have anything to connect to try out the port. Perhaps you can speak to Mark and see if he can help us here. I've waded the posts on the problems and I think the summary is this: 1) With a terminal on t0, running sterm or kermit to t3 hangs the machine 2) t1 or t2 gets off by one, but not t0, t3, or t4 3) any activity on the floppy can hang the machine if t1 is inized, or even iniz of t1 may hang the machine. Is this the complete list of what I am chasing gang? The problem I found may help 2 and 3 but won't impact 1. Carl There are 2 Replies. #: 14991 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Apr-92 17:57:41 Sb: #14987-serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, I'm always in a patchy mood! Just ask those that work with me. :-) I'll give the patch a try this evening when I get home. Looks like your list is complete, but I'll review my notes tonight. Thanks for the fast work. Steve #: 14992 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Apr-92 19:14:12 Sb: #14987-#serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, Looks like we're on the right track. I just patched sc68901 and it appears to cure the 'one-off' problem with both t1 and t2. I've banged on both for about an hour, and all my usual methods of making it fail seem to now work. I'll continue bashing over the holiday just to make sure .... but it feels right. However, it doesn't fix the 'hang upon accessing /d0' problem, as you've pointed out. I can get the machine to hang consistantly by having a shell running on /t1 (shell -l <>>>/t1&), and attempting any access of /d0 from anywhere (terminal or window). Take the shell off /t1 and things are fine. It would appear to have nothing to do with /t2 ... just /t1. Thanks for the quick fix to one of our problems! Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 14993 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Apr-92 20:52:21 Sb: #14992-#serial wierdness Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I tried the patch (used debug) and got better, but not totally perfect results. I can get /t1 to talk to my modem... but once I connect, nothing. Is there something I missed about /t1? Bill There are 2 Replies. #: 14995 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Apr-92 21:45:14 Sb: #14993-#serial wierdness Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) xthe /t0 port. The modem I have takes at\q1 to indicate that it should go for xon/xoff, and that's how I'm running it now, pending arrival of the paddle boards for /t3 and /t4. I had that problem just recently; check whether your modem insists on CTS/RTS. Mine did, and it exhibited exactly those symptoms when hooked to There is 1 Reply. #: 15000 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Apr-92 09:49:42 Sb: #14995-#serial wierdness Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I'll mess around with the modem settings some more. I think I did try &Q0, but not other values. I am able to send and receive stuff from the modem, but not while connected. The same modem works fine on /t0 with or without flow control (it falls all over itself with anything higher than &Q1 set, but at least I get some data). Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 15003 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Apr-92 19:50:32 Sb: #15000-#serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, You have increaed the buffer sizes for the serial ports, jes? I'm running at least 1K on both transmit and received buffers for all 5 serial ports. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 15010 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Apr-92 13:34:24 Sb: #15003-serial wierdness Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Ooops! Yes, I did for /t0 before I got the new drivers, but didn't check the new descriptors, and never did do it for any other ports.... going to do that right now. Bill #: 14996 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Apr-92 22:05:14 Sb: #14993-#serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) James has a good suggestion. /t1 is really designed for a terminal so flow control may be the problem you're having with the modem. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 15001 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Apr-92 09:49:57 Sb: #14996-serial wierdness Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Actually, I plan on hooking my CoCo up to /t1, but just wanted to see if it was working at all. Hopefully I'll get a chance to hook the coco up today. Bill #: 14994 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Apr-92 21:15:39 Sb: #14992-#serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Hot dog. One down, two to go. I think the next one may fall quickly too. There are still some problems with t1 being two wire and t2 being four wire. Since the floppy hangs off the t1 I/O port, it is probably causing the rest of the problems with t1. I doubt the next one is patchable though. I will have to send binary for you to try. Perhaps tomorrow. There is 1 Reply. #: 14997 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Apr-92 22:06:00 Sb: #14994-#serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Great ... I'll keep an eye out. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 15014 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Apr-92 22:01:17 Sb: #14997-#serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Question. Re t0 and sterm and t3, does it happen with a terminal on t0 and sterm to t1 or t2? Or only to t3? I just tried terminal/t0/sterm/t1 and that works ok. At least with the new 901 driver. I will get to t3, but I am a bit under the weather and don't feel like going on now. Probably by tomorrow afternoon (late - Easter dinners ya know) I should get to try it. There are 3 Replies. #: 15016 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Apr-92 09:40:49 Sb: #15014-serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, Good question ... I've not tried any other port for the modem. I'll give it a work out today with the new driver, tho! Steve #: 15017 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Apr-92 10:57:25 Sb: #15014-serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, Here's a preliminary report of what I've found with the new driver installed: The 'one-off' problem stayed fixed. The machine no longers locks up when accessing /d0 with a shell on /t1. However, with a terminal on /t0, running sterm out either /t1 or /t3 will lock the /t0 port. Attempting to kill the sterm process will hang the entire machine just as before. I did notice something interesting that I've not noticed before with /t1. (mind you I've never had a modem attached to this port either) With a modem attached to /t1, I get TX and RX lamps lit when I boot the MM/1. After firing up sterm, those lamps extinguish, and work as expected as I connect to CIS. I'm wondering if this has someting to do with the fact there's only xmit and receive on /t1 and really is non- issue. I'm gonna redo the boot file, remove the mouse stuff and play with /t2 and /t4 with a terminal on /t0 and see what gives. Two out of three, Carl! Looks like we're almost home. Steve #: 15018 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Apr-92 11:56:09 Sb: #15014-#serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, Here's the follow up: Yanking the mouse stuff out of the boot, tube on /t0 and running sterm out /t2 or /t4 locks up the machine. Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 15022 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Apr-92 22:19:46 Sb: #15018-serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I will grab the whole thread in a minute when I dl the board, but here is what I've found.... T1 and t2 can be a bit wierd since the bits connected to the output are not necessarily set up properly until the port is inized. I noticed the wierd colors on the tester leds too. But it works ok. My setup is the 030 running kermit to T0, running sterm (or kermit) to T3, to a Wyse 50. If you type real slow on the 030 or the Wyse, it works OK. If you go too fast (which a modem answer might be) it hangs up. It didn't hang the machine tight, though. I can still look at stuff with /term as a window. What is happening is that there are chars to be consumed in the inbound buffer but the signal is gone. This makes it appear to be hung. If you go to the other device and type one char, it unsticks. It doesn't matter which end you overrun - it will get hung either typing at the Wyse (t3 gets hung) or at the 030 (t0 gets hung). The really wierd thing is that all these pieces are fine by themselves. Well, most all. Sterm gets a lot of use all over. The 681 driver is solid as a rock. It runs daily at up to 38.4 with never a hint of a problem, kermiting or running sterm or terminals. The 070 driver is less mature, but the 681 driver still gets hung up with a missing signal if you come in from that side in this configuration. So where are we? At this point our results mostly agree. I haven't a clue as to what is going on. I presume I will figure it out before too long. BTW, I can get the crash when killing the task on t0 too, but only if there are chars in the buffer. This may not be a crash, but just a hangup waiting for the buffer to clear so it can close, which never happens. I would really like to put a timeout in the close routine so the drive r will only wait a finite time for the buffer to flush before it gives up. This sort of problem shows up also when you get an XOFF in the modem and then try to exit any comm prog. It will hang forever trying to close the port. Carl #: 15036 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Apr-92 22:38:33 Sb: #15018-#serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I am dropping new070.ar in dl16. I think you will be pleasantly surprised to find that t0 now works properly. This is the second fatal bug I have found in the 070 driver as it came from Microware. 'Course the fact that it wasn't my bug is small consolation to those for whom the driver doesn't work, eh? There are 3 Replies. #: 15037 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Apr-92 07:03:05 Sb: #15036-serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Hot dog! I'll nab it directly, Carl, and start bashing on it. Thanks for all your help. Steve #: 15038 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Apr-92 18:45:35 Sb: #15036-#serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) MyOmy .... I'm logged into a tube on /t0 and running sterm out /t3! Looks as if things are as they should be! More as I beat on it! BTW .... what problem(s) did you find with the 070 driver? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 15039 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Apr-92 20:33:17 Sb: #15038-#serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Well, hot dawg!! I thought you would find that to be the case but is oh so comforting to hear it from your keyboard! The problem was this: if you try to set a signal when one is already set (as sterm can do) the driver is just supposed to return 246 which gets eaten by the caller. However, the common routine to do this (called from both read and putstat) loads the error code, sets the carry, and pops a0 & a3 off the stack before returning. Read pushes a0 & a3, so this works ok. As you can guess by now, putstat does not push them. So control returns to the kernel in a manner other than it expected, and the task ends up sleeping. Which is rather benign compared to the other things it could do in that case ;). There is 1 Reply. #: 15042 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Apr-92 06:44:16 Sb: #15039-#serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Thanks for the explanation, Carl. Things are looking solid at this end. I'll continue to whomp on things here and see how it goes. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 15051 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Apr-92 21:22:04 Sb: #15042-#serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) If it is ok with Mark, I'll sit on the board over the weekend or week and we'll see how it goes for you and others. If you know anyone else who should give them a try, tell them to go for it. Carl There is 1 Reply. #: 15060 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Apr-92 22:21:31 Sb: #15051-serial wierdness Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 I'm hoping for some expanded test time this weekend, but it's still looking good. I'm sure Mark will pipe up and set me straight if I'm wrong, but I'm betting he'd rather you hang on to the board for a bit until the new drivers have 'aged' a bit. On another note, I'm experiencing what would appear to be system lockups that are tied to me powering down my terminal, and occasionally upon receiving a disconnect message from a modem. Nothing that I've been able to duplicate at will yet .... I'll keep you posted. Steve #: 15040 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Apr-92 22:51:19 Sb: #15036-#serial wierdness Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, just as additional verification, I've grabbed both of the "new" drivers and have not had any problems with them. I don't have a T3 paddle board so can't test everything, but what I can test seems to be working fine. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 15050 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Apr-92 21:20:32 Sb: #15040-serial wierdness Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Thanks Bill. I love it when thing go right! #: 15012 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Apr-92 21:29:55 Sb: Your TC70 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, Been a few weeks now. Hows the TC70 running for yo{? Did you get your hard drive working ok? Did you get KWindows ported y{t? Frank #: 15019 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Apr-92 12:09:39 Sb: OSK FidoNet connection Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: anyone I am looking for some sort of FidoNet compatable mailer/bbs/point-system that runs under OS-9/68000. My main FidoNet BBS machine (which runs CP/M-68K) is having hardware trouble - I'd to get back on the net with my other machine, a Force CPU30 system running OS-9/68000 2.4. I know that that author of the CoCo RiBBS system is in the process of porting it to OSK, but I have not heard if the port is finished. Robert #: 15059 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Apr-92 21:21:45 Sb: Your TOMCAT TC70 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, Well, you've had your TC70 for about a month now... How are things working out? Have you gotten the port of the new KWindows done? If not, when will it be done? Frank Hogg #: 15078 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Apr-92 07:15:17 Sb: #CD-ROM DRIVE & MY MM/1 Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: ALL Is any one working on the following 3 modules? CDFM - CD-ROM FILE MANAGER CDROM - CD-ROM DRIVER CD - CD DESCRIPTOR I JUST BOUGHT a CHINON CD-ROM drive model # CDS-431 and I would like to test it, but I need the modules above. Please reply; Keith There is 1 Reply. #: 15079 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Apr-92 08:10:26 Sb: #15078-CD-ROM DRIVE & MY MM/1 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, You better try Microware and see if they have some for that drive. I don't think anyone could just give you the modules if they had them anyway. Especially since no one I know of has written any for themselves. Mark Press !>#: 15619 S7/Telecommunications 20-Jun-92 11:46:16 Sb: #15610-#WIZ Help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Bob - Did you scan all the Wiz modules for /d0? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15632 S7/Telecommunications 22-Jun-92 00:48:29 Sb: #15619-#WIZ Help Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Not yet, Pete. Do you think that would matter though? It doesn't even attempt to read from the /d0 when I run it from the H/D? It just reads from the H/D then quits and gives me the error. There are 2 Replies. #: 15636 S7/Telecommunications 22-Jun-92 11:59:31 Sb: #15632-#WIZ Help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Bob - All we know for sure is: a) It's looking for something that it can't find (for whatever reason) b) You changed from /d0 to /h0 (and shifted /DD) c) It does a disk access before the error I suggest that the following are the most likely causes of the problem: a) A file or directory that's required is missing from the hard disk b) An explicit reference to another drive remains c) You have different startup files that load different things on the floppy or hard disk. d) You have different versions of code on the hard disk than on the floppy. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15640 S7/Telecommunications 22-Jun-92 19:23:57 Sb: #15636-#WIZ Help Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, This is what I found last night. I used dEd to search for any d0's, and had no luck. Then I decided to do a verify, Bingo!! After that, it worked fine, except the address for the 4in1 serial is different then what is actually in the special /t2 it uses, but that is just a matter of changing it (I went from a Slotpak & RS232 to an SCII recently). When I did a cmp of the one on the H/D and the one I made the copy of from the floppy, there were about 17 bit chanes???? I didn't do it. Unless dEd changed all of these during the verify, I don't know what the heck happened. Thanks for your time, and the little boost in effort that kept pushing to find the problem. Bob////// There is 1 Reply. #: 15644 S7/Telecommunications 23-Jun-92 09:14:45 Sb: #15640-WIZ Help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Bob - Sorry I didn't think of CRC's... I had patched my kernel to omit the CRC check, which made it much faster on a HD based system. This seemed rational, as a corrupt module would either have shown up with a disk read error, or a not ready. Also, most corrupt modules (at least in those days) were the result of xmodem padding, which was implicitly stripped at module load time. Good fix... Pete #: 15638 S7/Telecommunications 22-Jun-92 17:16:40 Sb: #15632-#WIZ Help Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Another thing you might check is the attributes of the WIZ files and modules that you transfered to the hard drive. You might be getting hit with a NO PERMISSION error when WIZ tries to open a file. Larry There is 1 Reply. #: 15641 S7/Telecommunications 22-Jun-92 19:26:02 Sb: #15638-#WIZ Help Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Thanks Larry. I fixed it though. If you are interested, see the letter I sent to Pete Lyall on what happened when I fixed it. Pretty strange. There is 1 Reply. #: 15798 S7/Telecommunications 06-Jul-92 23:33:38 Sb: #15641-#WIZ Help Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) I'm just getting back to read the mail and am glad to see that you have succeeded in getting your WIZ to fly. I used it (the wizpro variant) as my telecom program of choice on the COCO for several years and was always happy with the results. Lately I have had to switch to STERM on my TC70 (and tonight am using TELIX on a PC because the TC70 is under the weather so to speak) but would be very happy if there were a WIZPRO for the TC70. Come to think that should be relatively easy to port given that wizpro is mostly basic09 but the sources would be required.. Runtime is not going to work until a few addresses have changed and also the screen work. Interestin project for someone, Bill Brady has not been about for a while but I do beliwve he had been looking at a TOMCAT 6809 machineand would bet he will be thinking. Back to your problem - when you patched your original wizpro to take into account the new addresses - did you verify the modules? They could have been lurking about - but I don't know how you were loading them from floppy if that is the case. Hmm - all's well that ends well . Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 15836 S7/Telecommunications 09-Jul-92 02:30:40 Sb: #15798-WIZ Help Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 (X) Bob P., To tell you the exact story, I never made any changes to anything in the program. All I did, once I put my HD on the COCO, was to simply copy it to the HD, and the weird results occurred????? Doo doo dee doo, doo doo dee doo (Twilight Zone). See ya, Bob////// #: 15627 S7/Telecommunications 21-Jun-92 13:56:28 Sb: #15610-#WIZ Help Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Did you by any chance have something merged with RUNB before and not now? Has you bootfile size increased so that now there is not enough room in 64k to get runb and all of the WIZ files? That's usually the reason for process not found. If it was not on disk I would have expected a file not found or maybe wrong attributes. There is 1 Reply. #: 15634 S7/Telecommunications 22-Jun-92 00:54:04 Sb: #15627-WIZ Help Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 (X) I did not have anything merged to RunB before, since all except it are merged into the program itself. Yes, I have since changed my bootfile to include a few more modules for the H/D. But, I did remake the old floppy Boot to contain these new modules. When I run the old/new floppy Boot, it runs fine when dd is d0. It seems like it just refuses to run off the H/D. #: 15631 S7/Telecommunications 22-Jun-92 00:45:59 Sb: #15611-WIZ Help Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) This is the original WIZ, which just has the directory COM that holds the autodial files. It is on the H/D. Also, the program has all that it needs except RunB, merged in it already. Even still, I have merged all the pertinant B09 files into a Runb.1, and load it prior to running the program. #: 15620 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jun-92 22:08:23 Sb: #15615-#Vprint Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott, Glad to hear that Vprint is working. Yup, ya found a bug...I create some strings to do the searching for the init file. Unfortunately, by the it gets down to looking in /h0 my code used strcpy() instead of sprintf()! Well, that's fixed. So fire your disk in the mail to me and I'll be glad to update it. In the meantime, you can do one of three things: 1. Set the shell variable VPTDIR to /h0/sys, 2. Set the shell variable HOME to /h0, 3. Load a /dd descriptor which matches /h0. Sorry about the phone call. That does sound expensive. Hmmm, that was during prime time, wasn't it? Maybe it's time to check out rates with ATT, etc.... Up to now, we've not had any competition on longdistance phone rates in Canada. The govt. just changed it's rules and a couple of outfits have been given premission to interconnect and set up shop. It'll be interesting to see what happens here with rates--they are much higher than what you are used to paying. There is 1 Reply. #: 15622 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jun-92 00:04:54 Sb: #15620-#Vprint Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Yes, the VPTDIR shell variable sounds good to me. I called MCI and AT&T and both have about the same rates, but I do not know about the prime time vs. late night rates. There was a consultant here at work working on software development on our embedded system (STARIV) from Canada and his rates in Halifax was much higher than here too. Also when calling your number it seems that your area (central office) still has analogue switching. thanks scott howell. /exit There is 1 Reply. #: 15649 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-92 02:10:10 Sb: #15622-#Vprint Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott, Even if the VPTDIR stuff works, do send the disk back anyway--there are some other buglettes in the version you have. Hey, how can you tell what kind of switchboard we have here? You are right--it's an old mechanical thing (even though I'm convinced that at times they still bring in an old gal who does the connects via phone-plugs). Until they get a new switch here, I'm unable to tap into nicities like call waiting, etc. Maybe just as well...my bill is high enuf. But the mechanical relays cause lots of noice too, at times. It's been on the telephone company's list for years now. I wonder if the coming deregulation in Canada will hinder or help these projects? There is 1 Reply. #: 15656 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-92 09:09:39 Sb: #15649-Vprint Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) the mechanical relays on the rings have a stronger attack than the digital ones. I know then ATT was broken up into regional bell systems in 1983, many of the mechanical central offices in Georgia was converted. I will send the disk soon! thanks #: 15621 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Jun-92 22:08:33 Sb: #15618-AIFs Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Oh, is that what they mean by .xxx. Never occurred to me that .xxx meant three characters.... Darn, sometimes I wonder why I even turn the computer on, let alone doing work on it! #: 15623 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jun-92 12:03:46 Sb: #15560-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob; Booting from /d0 and finishing from /dd (HD), accessing an empty /d1 does NOT cause any errors on my system. RBF Ed.#79 and descriptors are all Ed.#11. ...Jim There is 1 Reply. #: 15650 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-92 02:10:19 Sb: #15623-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) This makes no sense. You're the 2nd person who reports no errors. So far, I'm the only one reporting errors. Funny thing is that I got the errors when I still had my single board proto system--so I'm wondering if there is something with my hardware causing the problem? I've got a 3.5" Hitachi and a 5" CDC. No terminator resistor--I tryed installing one and found that the system would not access the 3" drive when I added one. Also, if I take the 5" out of the system, I still get the error if I try just accessing the non-existant drive, so I sort-of doubt that it is hardware. Anyone? There are 2 Replies. #: 15653 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-92 08:21:14 Sb: #15650-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I have never heard of a problem like what you mentioned. Perhaps you should post CRCs for the modules in question (RBF, 33C93, d0, d1, etc) and see if that is the cause. Other than that, I'd say you have a hardware problem. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15704 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-92 20:55:00 Sb: #15653-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, Well, it (the crashing of floppies) is definitely a bug here on my system. If it is a hardware bug, where do you suggest I look. Remember, this same bug was present on my proto (single board) system. At the time I just figured it was the software... At this point the only things the same are the 3.5" floppy (and the case). Here are the current drivers I'm using: d0 #14 crc - 998410 d1 #14 crc - BA83F3 rb37c65 #4 crc - 1768E9 rbf #79 crc - F098AF For hardware, I have 3.5" floppy and a 5" 80 track. I've disconnected the 80 and still get the same results. Just to refresh the debate, here is how to get the bug: 1. boot normally (I do it from the 3.5" and the process continues on /h0), 2. attempt to access /d1 with the drive door open (dir /d1 "works" fine), 3. after an error is generated, attempt to access /d0 (again, do something like dir /d0)--at this point I get an error! With no disk in d1 the light on d0 flashes after 5 seconds, then the error is reported after another 5 secs. If I remove the drive completely, the error is reported right after the flash. However, if you do an access to /d0 before all this (again, dir /d0 works) everything appears to work okay. BTW, I don't have a terminator on /d1. I put one on to test things, but then the 3.5 became unaccessable, even for the boot process. There are 2 Replies. #: 15713 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jun-92 09:48:32 Sb: #15704-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Well, you had this bug in your prototype system, then I would think it might be the cable or the dirve itself. I have not been able to reproduce this on my system, nor have I heard of anyone else having this problem. The terminating resistor may or may not be a problem. Some drives need to have them and some don't. When you mix drives, you run into the problem of either both drives need them, neither do, or one or the other do before you get reliable results. The only other answer might be you are running a different version of RBF or the floppy drivers. Check that all out (with the CRC) and see what they are. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15731 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jul-92 20:46:51 Sb: #15713-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Well, Mark, I did post the CRC's in my last message. I assume that they are the latest. I did detatch the 5" drive completely, and still got the error. So I guess that leaves the cable or the 3" drive. Sounds pretty unlikely to me that either one could be causeing this weird problem. However, I will try a new cable one of these days. Will the mm/1 boot from a 5" drive? Just a matter of making a boot disk? If it's that easy I could pull the 3" drive and see if that's causing the problem. There is 1 Reply. #: 15747 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jul-92 09:09:28 Sb: #15731-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, If you did post CRCs then I didn't see them. Maybe you can post them again, or the Sysops here can go back and find that message and point me to it (hint hint Steve). It is very possible that the cable can be causing your problem, or the 3.5 inch drive. If you have any other drives to try, then you should do that and see what happens. As for booting from a 5.25 inch drive, OS-9/OSK doesn't care what the drive type or size is. All it looks for is the LSN0 data which points it to the sector where the bootfile is. Then it just issues a seek command to get to that sector and it starts to read. Of course, OSK Ver 2.4 can now bring in a bootfile that is fragmented, but older versions and OS-9 can't. The long and the short of it is--if you can make a bootfile on the disk, it can be booted from that disk. I always make my boot disks on an Atari formatted disk cause I don't like to use up a HD disk just to hold the bootfile. I have also been able to boot from a Universal format and a CoCo format disk. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15749 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jul-92 10:28:36 Sb: #15747-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, I checked Bob's CRC's against mine .... he's up to the current revisions. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 15759 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Jul-92 06:55:55 Sb: #15749-MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Thanks Steve. #: 15771 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Jul-92 22:15:10 Sb: #15704-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I'm coming in late, but what the hey. The crc's for rbf and rb37c65 are good, the ones for d0 and d1 probably don't matter. Booting from a 5.25" is not a problem. The roms don't really care. This is *seriously* wierd. I wish I had an answer. Carl There is 1 Reply. #: 15849 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Jul-92 20:21:44 Sb: #15771-#MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, I was speaking to Zack Sessions last night, and he has similar problems with his mm/1 when he tries to read a coco disk in a HD drive, or something. He wrote a short program which does a _ss_rset() to the device and this seems to clear things up. Don't know if related. I sent him some of this thread and he will post it on the other net and has promised to let you know what's up. Gotta be a bug ! There is 1 Reply. #: 15851 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Jul-92 22:42:06 Sb: #15849-MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Hey, I will buy into the possibility of a bug ;). I just need a way to duplicate the problem so I can find it. #: 15787 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jul-92 13:36:20 Sb: #15650-MM/1 RBF Bug Fm: Eric Crichlow 71051,3516 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I haven't been online for awhile (don't get on but once a week) so I don't know if you've solved this problem yet, but I just thought I'd let you know that you're not alone. I believe I've seen the same problem that you're describing on my system, only I THINK it only ocurred here after using the reset button to reboot the system. Then /d1 was totally unfunctional. As I remember, rebooting by turning the system off for a few seconds then back on always solved the problem. I hadn't seen the problem in quite awhile, but strangely enough it happened just before I was getting ready to write this reply! Go figure. If you figure anything out about this let me know. ..Eric... #: 15624 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jun-92 12:09:31 Sb: #Windows edition? Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Kevin Darling Kev; I've seen references to the window driver edition #42. The one in the upgrade disk is #38. Is there another, later edition posted somewhere? Also, any docs available? thanks, ...JIm There is 1 Reply. #: 15625 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jun-92 13:05:48 Sb: #15624-Windows edition? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Hi Jim - printed docs are still in the works; a bare reference should've been on the upgrade disk (?). Some people at the fest snarfed v41. V42 will be uploaded here pretty soon with minor fixes/features derived from v41 feedback. Then the cycle will start again :-) thanks - kevin #: 15626 S1/General Interest 21-Jun-92 13:48:07 Sb: #15596-#Drive help Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X) You will probably find what looks like a DIP socket with a "chip" containing 8 links in it. the links for 1 2 & 3 need to be severed and 0 made for this to be a drive 0. If I remember rightly the board will have lables beside the plug. Somewhere around here I have the appropriate book for Tandon drives so if this is not enough (and if you can be patient enough for my next log on) I'll dig it out. By the way - no need to buy a new link chip if the pin 0 is cut - just turn it around end for end. I don't think number 8 is of any consequence to the Tandon. - this is a single or double sided disk? Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 15647 S1/General Interest 23-Jun-92 20:19:19 Sb: #15626-Drive help Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 (X) Thanks for the reply Bob. I ended up ordering a real drive. The system gave me a scare when it didn't work with the new drive. It did work eventually, so maybe I have a bad cable. Now that my HD is up and running again, I don't worry too much about the floppies. Hugo #: 15628 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 21-Jun-92 14:01:18 Sb: #15613-I Give Up Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111 Mike - did I hear you say that the new Ultimuse will run on the TC70 already? or is that soon? HmW@has it gone about getting a midi port? This from a TC70 owner who is an occasional user of Ultimuse and a Yamaha PSS480. Very slick program on the coco should be even slicker on the faster hardware. Bob #: 15629 S1/General Interest 21-Jun-92 17:13:26 Sb: #15588-HAM LICENSE Fm: DOUG 72667,1433 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Congratulations also, Keith.. Have been licensed for 27 years... welcome to the fun. Hope to see you on packet or some of the other digital modes. Doug WA4UNS #: 15630 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jun-92 21:26:28 Sb: #15593-MM/1 Mouse Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Hi Steve... True. Hmmm... #: 15633 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 22-Jun-92 00:52:33 Sb: #PCDOS Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 To: All Exists there a patch for the Disto no halt driver to allow it to work with PCDOS? I am tired of having to keep switching to SDISK (and, in the process, each time I want to transfer a file. There is 1 Reply. #: 15643 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 22-Jun-92 21:27:03 Sb: #15633-#PCDOS Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X) The Disto driver is very different from the patch you've used on the usual driver. I have never seen a patch such as you described. On my system I tried using the Disto driver as though it were patched and it worked fine, not only for PCDos but also RSDos. Try using the Disto driver as it is on disks with no critical data on them and see if it works reliably on your system too. Erich Schulman (KTN4CA) There are 2 Replies. #: 15662 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 24-Jun-92 22:49:23 Sb: #15643-#PCDOS Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X) Erich, I had already tried using the Disto no-halt driver as-is with PCDOS, but tried it again just to be sure, with the same result. Any attempt to access a DOS diskette with PCDOS simply results in the message "Not a DOS diskette". Switching to SDISK corrects the problem, but leaves me without buffered I/O on the drives. Odd that yours should work OK and mine not, though. Ian There are 3 Replies. #: 15663 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 25-Jun-92 01:00:24 Sb: #15662-#PCDOS Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X) Try one more time using the Disto driver, but this time use a 360K DOS disk with no more than 1-2 files totaling no more than 100K in size. Regardless of driver I have had a great deal of difficulty using PCDos with DOS disks exceeding these numbers. For a 720K disk, the limit seems to be 1 file no larger than 100K. I asked about this problem in this Forum last year and no one came up with an answer, and I haven't figured it out either. Also be sure you have at least 32K free memory before you load PCDos (even more is better). I've had problems with it when less memory was free. There is 1 Reply. #: 15780 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 04-Jul-92 07:59:39 Sb: #15663-PCDOS Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X) I have used PCDOS with 720K disks and it was full and I had no problems. I am using Sdisk3 made for the DMC controller. I have not tried it with the patched cc3disk (for normal controllers) Mike #: 15721 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 01-Jul-92 16:30:49 Sb: #15662-#PCDOS Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X) I've heard of others using the no-halt drivers (Disto's, that is) with PCDOS. I use Sardis No-Halt controllers with SDISK3, so I don't encounter the problems that you're facing. However, there are folks in my CoCo Group here that have used PCDOS successfully with the DISTO No-halt drivers. Lee There is 1 Reply. #: 15739 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 02-Jul-92 00:36:11 Sb: #15721-#PCDOS Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X) I use PCDOS with the Disot SC-2 with out any problems. Just remember, if it is a file other than an ASCII file, use PCDOS-raw -get or utils suck as UNZIP will not work. I came in late so perhaps this thread has already addressed thjis, but any problems that I ever encountered with PCDOS was due to my failure to use the -raw command. --Br. Jeremy, CSJW There are 2 Replies. #: 15740 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 02-Jul-92 00:36:58 Sb: #15739-PCDOS Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 To: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 (X) Sorry for the misprint, of course that should be DISTO SC-2. --Jeremy. #: 15743 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 02-Jul-92 08:53:00 Sb: #15739-PCDOS Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 (X) Hi! Bro! I think maybe you replied to the wrong person. I wasn't having problems with Disto SC-2 (since I don't own one). There were some other folks that I was responding to that were however having problems trying to get the SC-2 drivers to work with PCDOS. It could be something as simple as trying to access a double sided diskette on a single-sided drive. Who knows. My response was simple to add a comment that I knew of some folks in our club that use DISTO SC-2 successfully with PCDOS. Lee #: 15797 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 06-Jul-92 15:15:09 Sb: #15662-PCDOS Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X) There's a guy down here in Dallas, that has had to resort to basically the same thing. That is, if he wants to use his system to read PC-created diskette, then he reboots with a patched CC3Disk, but in this mode his No-Halt feature is not in use. When he boots with his Disto-supplied drivers, he has the No-Halt features, but he can't read PC-DOS diskettes. I'm still waiting to hear from one other guy down here to see what his solutioin is, but right now it don't look too good. Lee #: 15677 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 25-Jun-92 21:47:25 Sb: #15643-#PCDOS Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X) Which Disto driver works with PCdos ? .irq or .slp ? Neither of them work for me. I also have a separate disk I boot with when I want to use PCdos. I've since given up on PCdos and just connected my COCO serially to my AST286. The COCO sends files fine at 19.2 kbaud and receives them reliably at 4800 baud. Paul Rinear KB2JWM There is 1 Reply. #: 15679 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 25-Jun-92 22:40:21 Sb: #15677-PCDOS Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X) Right - none of the Disto SC-II drivers work with PCDOS... you have to make a separate boot disk with the modified RS driver. #: 15635 S15/Hot Topics 22-Jun-92 00:59:57 Sb: #6309 & /t2 Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: all Have you heard of any others having trouble with the 6309 locking up the /t2? Me and another member of the Phoenix Coco Club are experiencing this problem since we installed the 6309. It is not the booster program, as I have run terms w/ & w/o the patches, all of which have the effect, crapping out! There is 1 Reply. #: 15637 S15/Hot Topics 22-Jun-92 12:01:21 Sb: #15635-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Bob - What speed are you running at? 3Mhz? IS the 6551 rated to provide service at that rate, if so? Pete There are 2 Replies. #: 15642 S15/Hot Topics 22-Jun-92 19:31:14 Sb: #15637-#6309 & /t2 Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, The only thing is, it usually runs fine for a while, then just locks up for no apparent reason. I does it quite frequently during d/ling, which present quite a problem. I have only found it locking up once on a menu screen of a BBS. I was under the understanding that the 6309 only effected the modules that were patched, and there abilities to use the extra register W. I do not think the processor is actually faster. Bob////// There is 1 Reply. #: 15645 S15/Hot Topics 23-Jun-92 09:20:02 Sb: #15642-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Bob - Locking up after a period is an indication of overheating (or mismatched speed rating). I used to have some EPROMS that acted like that... fine for 20 minutes or so, then wham. I'm not sure what the 4in1 uses for serial port chips (Steve Wegert may), but you may want to verify that their 6551's are rated for proper speed a coco3/1.87MHZ clocking. Also, are you using an IRQ hack line for your interrupts? If not, this may buy you some solidity... see IRQHAK.TXT in DL(1?)... Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15646 S15/Hot Topics 23-Jun-92 19:11:06 Sb: #15645-#6309 & /t2 Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete- I have since removed the Slotpak, and just have the SCII directly plugged into the computer. That is, since I got the SCII & 4-in-1. So, I don't have a hacked IRQ. I found the computer locked up today in about 10 minutes, while using Supercomm. The other day I was d/ling a 560k program, and got about 360K before it crapped out. So, I think the heat problem is out. I believe the 4in1 uses the 6551a chips. Do you think this still may be the problem? Bob////// There are 2 Replies. #: 15648 S15/Hot Topics 23-Jun-92 21:13:17 Sb: #15646-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Install the IRQ hack. On the side, how do you arrive at "the heat problem is out"? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15776 S15/Hot Topics 04-Jul-92 02:31:24 Sb: #15648-#6309 & /t2 Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, I am trying to rule out the heat problem, since the WIZ is doing just fine now. It has its own descriptor M2W, and isn't locking up now. Also, I have had the computer on for about 10 minutes and then the t2 will lock up, then I have had it on for 50 minutes and the t2 locks up. Wouldn't the t2 lock-up about the same time every time?? If overheatingwere the problem. -Bob////// There is 1 Reply. #: 15782 S15/Hot Topics 04-Jul-92 11:07:26 Sb: #15776-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Not necessarily.... is the room ambient temerature always the same? Are you always running the same code in similar sequence? Suggestions: o - Install IRQ hack o - Throw heat sinks on UART chips o - Put a fan in the area (better yet, put a muffin fan on the box) o - Take the system apart and reseat/clean everything Also, is there any special reason you're using WiZ? I recall in the early days that folks had nothing but trouble with it, and it was VERY hardware specific (i.e. hardwired code). It required several iterations to get it working properly. Perhaps something vanilla such as Xcom9 or Sterm is a better choice until you get the problem resolved. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15795 S15/Hot Topics 06-Jul-92 02:31:04 Sb: #15782-#6309 & /t2 Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, I am using WIZ because it is reltively simple, and I have not had any problems since I set it up a year ago.(barring my recent errors) I am going to try the SACIA before I try to cool or clean. My COCO can't be that dirty anyhow, I have had a cover on it the past 3 years and take it apart often. Thanks, Bob////// There is 1 Reply. #: 15796 S15/Hot Topics 06-Jul-92 08:51:26 Sb: #15795-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Bob - It's not DIRT that's the concern... it's OXIDATION. Radio Shack, in their dubious wisdom, used cheap (tin?) contacts on all of their 'pak' products, and just air and moisture are enough to cause problems. Pete There are 2 Replies. #: 15811 S15/Hot Topics 08-Jul-92 00:39:37 Sb: #15796-#6309 & /t2 Fm: randy pischke 75460,205 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete- I received my 6309 in the mail today and installed it. When I tried to download from CIS at 2400 my /t2 locked up. My coco is always covered when not in use so is spotless inside. I have had a muffin fan in my coco for about 6 months now so cooling isn't a problem. I feel the problem is software related. Specifically to the Powerboost software. The com program I am using is Sterm, so your recommendation to Bob to use it won't help. Another problem I have encountered after upgrading (not sure if that is a good term at present) is that when I use Mmulti-vue I get vertical "ghost" lines appearing on the top half of the screen. The lines are linked to the mouse pointer. As the pointer moves up the lines move up and vise-versa. My coco worked perfectly before the socalled upgrade. Any other ideas!! :-( There are 3 Replies. #: 15813 S15/Hot Topics 08-Jul-92 02:49:11 Sb: #15811-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: randy pischke 75460,205 (X) Randy - perhaps something got flexed during installation of the 6309. Have you tried the usual tapping or cleaning of the GIME? Did you reinstall the bottom circuit board shield (and make sure there were no metal shavings)? Did you install a socket (I hope!)? If so, do you have a 6809 you could stick in to see if it still works okay that way? kev There is 1 Reply. #: 15823 S15/Hot Topics 08-Jul-92 19:05:18 Sb: #15813-6309 & /t2 Fm: randy pischke 75460,205 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin- There weren't any shavings from the transplant. Yes, the shield plane is installed. I did socket the CPU for ease of replacement in the future. I will try 2400 baud again just to ensure that it wasn't caused by a bad phone line. If all else fails I just may have to go back to the 6809. Thanks Randy. #: 15817 S15/Hot Topics 08-Jul-92 08:56:50 Sb: #15811-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: randy pischke 75460,205 (X) Yeah - go back to the 68B09! On the T2 issue.... are you running the IRQ hack? That really does make a big difference. The ghosting... hmmm. I'm not familiar with powerboost, but I do remember that the 6309 could be clocked at 3Mhz... Has the effective rate been bumped up? Are they doing the old 'manual video refresh'? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15824 S15/Hot Topics 08-Jul-92 19:09:25 Sb: #15817-#6309 & /t2 Fm: randy pischke 75460,205 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete- I have no idea what the IRQ hack consists of. Could you enlighten me. I also don't know any details for the Powerboost software either. Strangely, today I don't have the faint 'ghosting' vertical lines. It is really weird. I'll try 2400 baud communications again and see if it still hangsup. -Randy There is 1 Reply. #: 15827 S15/Hot Topics 08-Jul-92 21:22:29 Sb: #15824-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: randy pischke 75460,205 (X) Randy - See IRQHAK.TXT in DL2... It physically connects the 6551's IRQ line to the 6?09's IRQ line, which avoids some of the pass through problems associated with the hardware in the middle. Pete There are 2 Replies. #: 15828 S15/Hot Topics 08-Jul-92 21:24:52 Sb: #15827-6309 & /t2 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Whoops ... make that DL10. Pete #: 15853 S15/Hot Topics 10-Jul-92 01:06:04 Sb: #15827-6309 & /t2 Fm: randy pischke 75460,205 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete- I have installed Carl Bennett's internal RS-232 port from May 1989 Rainbow.The port is completely hard wired so no MPI problems. I put my 6809 back in and the vertical 'ghost' lines went away. They only appeared on white backgrounds in hi res mode. This indicates a defective 6309 to me. It might have caused the t2 lockup if it has that kind of effect on my display. (Make any sense to you?) I appreciate the help. Will give Burke & Burke a call tomorrow. Randy. #: 15842 S15/Hot Topics 09-Jul-92 09:11:49 Sb: #15811-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: randy pischke 75460,205 (X) Randy, Your problem is probably due to the powerboost code and your serial port drives not being too happy with each other. I believe a few people over on the lesser service (starts with a "D" - grin) were having similar problems. Don't know what the wanswer was, if there was one. Hmmmm, I think something was said about using Bruce Isted's SACIA driver. In any case, it is not Sterm that is causing the problem. Opps...that should be "serial port drivers" above. Sorry. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15855 S15/Hot Topics 10-Jul-92 01:21:13 Sb: #15842-#6309 & /t2 Fm: randy pischke 75460,205 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark- I am using a stock /t2 driver except for a patch to the address for the port to work with the internal RS-232 port mod from May 1989 Rainbow. When I tried 2400 baud yesterday it worked without a problem. Now I don't know if it was a freak occurance from something I did or if there is really a problem. My 'ghost' line problem is getting worse though. This problem goes away when I put the 6809 back in so it seems to indicate a bad CPU. Can't think of anything else that would cause it. I used the same boot disk without Powerbooster installed to test the CPUs. It was very consistant. I appreciate your input as to what my system problems could be from. The more ideas I get, the better my understanding of how the system works. Many thanks to everyone on their input. Randy There is 1 Reply. #: 15858 S15/Hot Topics 10-Jul-92 15:07:31 Sb: #15855-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: randy pischke 75460,205 (X) Randy, What 'ghost line' problem are you having? If you are refering to a double image problem, perhaps it is due to a slight change in horizontal sweep frequency due to the change in the CPU. Hmmmmm...maybe not, that should be taken care of by the GIME. But then again, the sparklies problem could be taken care of by changing the CPU, still a 68B09 just a difference manufacturer. I fixed mine by installing an AMD chip. Strange. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15911 S15/Hot Topics 15-Jul-92 01:39:37 Sb: #15858-#6309 & /t2 Fm: randy pischke 75460,205 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark- I get these ghost vertical lines when I amon a high res screen that has a white background and the mouse pointer is active. As I move the pointer up and down the lines follow. With the pointer at the bottom right corner of the screen the lines cover the top 3/4 of the screen. When the pointer is moved to the top of the screen, the lines are gone. I am using GSHELL+ and when I press 'S' for a shell window, the lines also go away. They do come back when I close the shell window though. The lines also get worse the longer my system is running. It takes about 5 minutes for them to even show up. As I mentioned earlier, I do have a muffin fan in my computer and when I put my 6809 back in the lines never show up. It has to be a wierd 6309 since that is the only thing that I changed. There is no reasonable explanation. Randy. There is 1 Reply. #: 15913 S15/Hot Topics 15-Jul-92 09:56:59 Sb: #15911-6309 & /t2 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: randy pischke 75460,205 Randy, Sounds logical to me! Mark #: 15835 S15/Hot Topics 09-Jul-92 02:25:14 Sb: #15796-#6309 & /t2 Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, Your absolutely right about the cheap tin. Come to find out, that it was just the clock module causing all our Lock-up problems. At least as far as me and another guy can tell. He just gave the new clock module at our Phoenix COCO Club meeting earlier this evening. So far, 2 hours and counting, now lock-ups. Thanks for all your input. Thanks, Bob////// There is 1 Reply. #: 15841 S15/Hot Topics 09-Jul-92 08:49:13 Sb: #15835-6309 & /t2 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 Great.. glad it was simple (as hoped). That's one of the more disappointing things about the coco family... It wasn't very robust. Every now and then it'd lock up in the middle of a term paper, the world's greatest C program, or whatever because of the oxidization. Pete #: 15655 S15/Hot Topics 24-Jun-92 09:04:12 Sb: #15646-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) Bob, I concur with Pete, install the IRQ hack. What happens if you attempt to use Supercomm at a slower baud rate? Any lock ups? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 15775 S15/Hot Topics 04-Jul-92 02:20:15 Sb: #15655-#6309 & /t2 Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) When using it at 1200 & 2400 both, the t2 will lock up. I am going to ask a couple of other people that are having the problem, if they have the IRQ hack. If that is the case, it must be in the t2 decriptor. What realy gets me, is now that the WIZ is working okay, its descriptor isn't locking up (M2W). So, it must not be the 6551 chips. Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 15781 S15/Hot Topics 04-Jul-92 08:04:03 Sb: #15775-#6309 & /t2 Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 To: BOB LEET 72020,2536 (X) I would suggest replacing ACIAPAK with SACIA and the T2 thats in the archive I used to have problems with some lock ups and lost chars (even though I have an IRQ hack) but once I replaced the drivers it works great. even supercomm can handle 9600 baud ok now. where with aciapak it lost characters all the time SACIA is in the eliminator package available here. There is 1 Reply. #: 15794 S15/Hot Topics 06-Jul-92 02:10:59 Sb: #15781-6309 & /t2 Fm: BOB LEET 72020,2536 To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 (X) Thanks for the advice. See ya, Bob////// #: 15763 S15/Hot Topics 03-Jul-92 10:15:08 Sb: #15637-6309 & /t2 Fm: Fred Carter 76646,3172 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Hi Bob: If you were to design your own 6309 computer you could use a 12 MHz clock which woul generte a 3ec Bs rate almos doubl that o the COO-3. I 6809 mode, he 630 acts just ike a 680cept that t uses lss power an hence geneates lss heat h may be jhat yor COCOneeds!). Regards, Fred Carter (7,317) #: 15639 S1/Geneterst 22-Ju-92 17 Sb: #15581-teac drve help Ke Drexlr 7512,3427 To: Tom 6645 (X) Thaks for he repst. It muc easiero red. (I dd fiure ou therier version.) I am tilling to gt my cotroller trk wih the rive bt your sagegave m a bigstep frwar. Ken #: 15652 S12/OS9/8000 (OSK 24-Jun-92 07:5:31 Sb: #MM/1 problems Fm: Bill Dhaus 70325,23 To: all Help! A couple o week ago started geting the fllowing rs when I booted my MM/1: *** cio traphandle mismach *** **** can't istall thanler *** These messages are diplayed whe the startp file tris to lad somdules. If I turn te MM/1 off wait a litt while, and turnit back o, all s back to noral. Ths was on hapening out o 5 or ti duing bot, and neer anyr time. 've had nootherems or sysem "werdnes", ande been using ita lot It ts wore.....when tried to bot my M/1 last nght, I got he mssage: Error: s stat excepion; vetor #$0008 t addr 4EF0002 Then it tries to reboot,after tsge "-- SystemReset<--". Idiscoered that ifI unplgged y keybard, could ge thi point,all the wa to the startup fi ut then the co errrs, mos, but n f the tie. I actually goo boo all the ay once or (but ith no keboard plgged Setup is MM/1 withI/O board,f memorye 31/2 HDfloppy Seagae 157N HD, T0 (modem), T(CoCo, Loitechmouse, atestserial river, windos v38......ad a crppy keboard :- Anybodye an is? Bll There are 4 Rees. #: 15654 S12/OS9/6OSK) 24-Jun-92 08:23:b: #1552-#MM1 probems FMark riffith 7070,41 To:ll Dckhaus 0325,53 (X) Bill, Doyou tr to lod the ath ad cio tra libraries wen you boot? o, mae sure your versions o drivers fo the mous, keyboar, and eveything lse is orect oes forthe winio verion youhave. Kevin cangedmost o them for each ver so you ay have a ismatch thre. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15661 S12/OS800 (OSK) 24-Jun-92 22:3835 Sb: #1565-#MM/1problemsm:Bill haus 7025,523 To: MaGriffih 76070,41 X) Ma I thought of hat, oo.e tred to boo from the 3 diskI got with the MM/1, a ddn't wrk, eiher. Im wondring his is't al tiedto a bad keyboard.I want to gt a betterone anyway so I'm ging t forone over th next ouple f day. Any ecomendtionson a goodquality keyoard? There is 1 Reply. #: 15665 S12/OS9/8000 (OK) 2-Jun-92 0942:04 Sb: 1#MM/1 problms Fm: Mark Griffith76070,41 To: Bill Dickhaus 7035,523 X) Bill It is possile I uppose The oot seuencesends n init to th keybard, bt I donkno if itlooks or anyhingg back. I do't thik it dos you can boot withoutboard nstalled. Maybe theare ging bad sice math and cio a n there?? Just athought. Mark There are 2 Repes. #: 15668 S12/OS9/68(OSK) 25-Jun-92 1:44 Sb: #15665-M/1 probleFm: Bill Dckhaus70325,23 Toark Giffth 76070,4 (X) Mark, I nevertried to boo withou the kyboard so I idn't now fr sureif it would. So maye it h roms ging ba, plus he possiility thatthe keyboard beingbad is cin the newer roblem. Bill #: 15676 S12/OS9/6800 (OSK) 25-J92 2:24:1 Sb: #15665-#MM/1 prblems Fm: Bill Dickaus 70325,523 o: ark Grffith 7070,41 ) Mark (and Kevn), The "systm stat extion was cused bythe keyboard. Ifound tht when I turnedthe keyboa upide don I din't ge the errr. I hecked ver th keyboard, ky by ,and fund tht the 0INS ky on te keypd wa a little lower than a thers, takng the keycap off soved t problehis keyboard is desined fordumpser! :-). I still the trap handler errors almost every time I boot. I am beginning to think you are right about the roms, if I power the system down, boot, and if it fails, try, try, again, it eventually works.....and keeps on working until I boot again.. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 15678 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Jun-92 22:39:29 Sb: #15676-#MM/1 problems Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, Ah yes... if a key is down during boot, you get an error. Dunno why... Have you tried a different diskette for the boot, btw? I know it doesn't sound related (and probably isn't), but you never know. The two times that I couldn't get a boot to work it turned out that reformatting solved it. Again tho, this doesn't sound like the case for you, but thought I'd mention it. There is 1 Reply. #: 15684 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Jun-92 13:45:48 Sb: #15678-#MM/1 problems Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) {Kevin, Yes, it was the key stuck down that did it, I can duplicate the error by holding any key down. I think my cat is responsible for the busted/stuck key, he likes to stretch out across the keyboard whenever I'm out of the room, that and the fact that its not the greatest keyboard around. I did try booting from different disks, including a copy of the original 3M boot disk, same result. I discovered that when I was able to get my system to boot that the version of cio in memory had a bad CRC. It was also much larger than the cio I have in my CMDS dir. I saved the cio with the bad CRC (I assume this is the cio in the rom) and then verified it with DED to fix the CRC, now all is well. Wierd. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 15686 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jun-92 08:38:53 Sb: #15684-MM/1 problems Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Perhaps your cat has learned to type interesting things on your keyboard while he's languishing there. #: 15658 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-92 16:51:04 Sb: #15652-#MM/1 problems Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) I think the 2.4 math and cio modules are different from 2.3 and previous. I ran into a similar thing on the TC70... I was trying to use the 2.4 "irqs" command so I could see all the 68070 interrupt vectors, and got one of those errors. A lot of us have discovered that we're using old commands, btw. I finally noticed that I'd never installed the lastest basic/runb, for instance. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 15660 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-92 22:38:12 Sb: #15658-MM/1 problems Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) If I can ever get it to boot, I'll check that out. But why it would work some times, and not others? Could the other error I got be caused by a bad keyboard or bad keyboard connection? I'm going to try and find another keyboard to try. Bill #: 15705 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-92 20:55:10 Sb: #15652-#MM/1 problems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, I wonder if the ROMs are decaying? Sometimes when I boot my system the 'dir' command doesn't appear in the stuff in the ROMs, so the first dir goes to the disk to load itself. (I found this out when I started to use a replacement dir--sometimes I'd get the old one, sometimes the new one). My theory (dangerous ground here) is that sometimes a bit or two in the ROM is incorrect at the point where dir is located, so it's not mapped in. Could be that in your case it's a bad bit in cio. Maybe I should pull the ROMS and just reburn a copy and see what happens (but I'm too lazy). Hummm, one other thing I noticed is that it depends on how you boot. I had more luck getting 'dir' to appear in memory when I held RESET down for a few seconds than if I used 'break' or hit it momentarily. There is 1 Reply. #: 15709 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jun-92 07:44:07 Sb: #15705-#MM/1 problems Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I think you're right, I'm thinking about ordering the new ROMs for the MM/1 anyway (but I'm a little annoyed at the price). It looks like just a bit or two got messed up in the cio in the ROMs, resulting in a bad CRC. The real problem is that the cio I have on disk is not compatible with any of the system utilities, so I got the traphandler error. I found I was able to get the cio module with the bad CRC to stay in memory by forcing an error during the boot process by holding a key down (funny thing is I would never have known about this if it weren't for a stuck key!) when the system tries to recover from that error, the modules in ROM don't get rechecked, or something. I now have a possibly corrupted version of cio, but so far it appears to be working. This brings up another problem I've got. If I hit reset to reboot, it hangs trying to ccess thehard drive I can onlyreboot by pwering of and back o. I suspect its juimingproblem, ut where isthe prem?Any ideas?I have a Seagatedrive and th latest (s faI now) rivers. Bill Te is 1 Repl. #: 15712 S12/O000 (OS) 30-Jun-92 09:41:39 15709-#MM/1 roblems Fm: Mark Grifith 76070,4 To: Bill Dickhaus 7025,523 (X Bill, You might need to set the elay tie in the nit module o wait a whiler before accessing thedrive. Diferent dives requre differen time delay beforI controller. I have my delay time set with a value of 50, which seems to work with whatever drive I try. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15714 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jun-92 10:13:59 Sb: #15712-MM/1 problems Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, Thanks, I'll try that. I had it in the back of my mind (bad place to put something :-) to look that up, but hadn't done it yet. Bill #: 15783 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jul-92 11:11:28 Sb: #15652-#MM/1 problems Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Try this string of commands to test modules in memory (including ROM): mdir -u ! grep -v sysgo ! ident -qmz If your ROM is going south you should get bad CRCs for the ROM modules. You can also use this method as a brute force quick and dirty memory test by loading the entire contents of the CMDS directory into RAM and doing the same thing. This can get tricky as some programs like to put non OS9 modules in the CMDS directory which then won't load. I got around this by giving all of the all of the non OS9 modules uppercase names and using the command string: dir -u ! grep [a-z] ! load -zd I think that's close, I'm doing this all from memory. Hope this helps. -J There is 1 Reply. #: 15826 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Jul-92 21:07:29 Sb: #15783-MM/1 problems Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Thanks, Jay. I just tried what you suggested, and came up with all good crc's. I'm beginning to think that only the cio module is bad. But I did do this after booting and loading many modules that are probably also in rom, so its not a good test of only what's in rom, I'll try this next time I boot. As long as I get the right version of cio loaded right away in the startup file, all the problems go away. Bill #: 15657 S6/Applications 24-Jun-92 11:42:56 Sb: #15607-#Radio control Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, Hi. For sw receivers to have facility for computer control, you have to get into the middle price range, Icom R71a for $850,list or Kenwood R5000 for about the same price. These two are available used for about $200 cheaper. There the JRC series give you better specs, and more features for more dough. The Japan Radio nrd525 at about $1000 and the Drake R8 for the same price are the next step up. Check out Monitoring Times for the latest adds, and reviews. The JRC command set, I feel, is the easiest to program. In fact you could control the receiver about 80% via rs232, but being a knob twiddler, I would rather just let the computer do what it does best, keep data bases of frequencies and let me spin the dials. You really need a fine touch to bring in those Papua New Guinea stations. tomn There is 1 Reply. #: 15659 S6/Applications 24-Jun-92 16:53:09 Sb: #15657-Radio control Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) Thanks Tom! I've often wanted to get an SW receiver... my job in the Army was as a knob twiddler. (We all had black thumbs, in fact!) kev #: 15664 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 25-Jun-92 09:38:40 Sb: #Radio War Stories Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, So you were a radio operator with the military? As I recall, you were navy. Are you familiar with the R390A? That was a great receiver; still is. I saw a couple for sale at a recent swap, $200 asking, but I saw a guy talk it down to $80 each. As a jarhead, we got to work 6 meters with the an/prc-25. Not as neat as the 390, but then again, I wouldn't want to carry the 390 very far! I've seen reviews for addons to scanner receivers that give computer control. These are various forms of interfaces that parallel the keypads, and invariably are associated with msdos software. But I don't do much listening above 30 mhz. tomn There is 1 Reply. #: 15673 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 25-Jun-92 15:47:47 Sb: #15664-#Radio War Stories Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) Tom, I was an electronic warfare voice-intercept operator/linguist for the Army Security Agency (a military branch of NSA). Our job was to eavesdrop on and track North Korean military transmissions. At first I operated from the NSA Field Station in mid-South Korea, but then was transferred to a tactical outfit up at the DMZ (I have lots of horror stories about that! :-). Yep, I remember the 390... we trained on it, but never used it in the field. There, we used either vans mounted on the back of 5/4 ton trucks (TRQ-23? and later TRQ-32) or backpack receiver sets (TRQ-30), plus jeep-mounted jammers (TLQ-17) and truck-mounted jammers (GLQ-3). Oh, and microwave DF (MLQ-??). The gear used at the Field Station is something I probably still can't talk about. We would've killed for a portable digital receiver/DF-unit at the time (they got them a few years later on). Instead, we spent most of our time "knobbing" through several bands by hand. To this day, I hate static and headphones :) ASA is where I met Marsha, btw. She was in my Korean class, and later was at the Field Station, which was about 50 klicks south of where I was... so I'd often go AWOL on the weekends to see her ;-) So you were a Marine? Yikes! - kevin There are 2 Replies. #: 15685 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 27-Jun-92 02:11:36 Sb: #15673-#Radio War Stories Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hey Kevin, How bout that? I had about the same job in the Air Force, but I had it a little easier. First they sent me to Syracuse Univ. to learn German, then they sent me to Germany. Tough life, eh? I did do about 8 months as a member of an Air Force Liaison team at an ASA site in Berlin. Those poor guys didn't even have air conditioning at their site - and they ate out of these funny tin trays - geez. I guess there is not a lot of work for German Linguists in that field any more - I would like to get back to Berlin now that thw "wall" is gone. Ditto on the earphones and static too, I remember listening to a weak signal - far away - and then you hear a transport pilot right over your head (Berlin) key his mike.... see if you can get to the controls before he talks and your eardrums touch in the middle of your head. (So loud you can taste it). Did most of my last enlistment at NSA. Got my intro to computers there. Man, what I coulda done with this MM/1 on my desk. John Wainwright There is 1 Reply. #: 15687 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 27-Jun-92 15:22:00 Sb: #15685-#Radio War Stories Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X) John, No kidding? They sent you to a University to learn German instead of to DLI? Lucky dog! BTW, I had six years of high school and college German under my belt when I joined up... so naturally the Army picked Korean for my language. Figures, eh? Yeah, at the tactical outfit we'd be complaining about how our 20-year-old unheated quonset huts were like Swiss cheese to the Mongolian/Siberian cold wind, while our USAF counterparts down at Osan were complaining about the tint on their room color TV being slightly off :-) Man, you USAF had it made! You're right; what we could've done with personal computers back then. DF, etc. And back in the US before I got out, I made a jammer mockup out of cardboard, wood and plastic. Boy, if we'd had even just CoCo's back then, I could've instead done a trainer which actually "worked" and had feedback. There's an awful lot of ex-Intel types on CIS, btw. I run into AF/Army EW and NSA people all the time around here. I guess wanting to be in the comm links just gets into the blood :-) cheers - kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 15690 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 28-Jun-92 09:00:05 Sb: #15687-#Radio War Stories Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, Hehe, I wanted to get into electronics when I joined - but the USAF found out I was partly color-blind. My high school spanish teacher would have been astounded to learn that I had an "aptitude" for languages. The army types did have one little advantage - by the time I made SSGT (air force E-5), most of my army friends were E-6 and had been for quite a while. I do claim one personal record - I spent almost 8 years in the USAF and never flew on a military airplane. Off the subject, but I was wondering if you know of a way to generate a NULL from the MM/1 keyboard - for printer control strings in a text file and such. The only way I have found is to make a file containing just a NULL and then get EMACS to insert it in my text. JohnW There is 1 Reply. #: 15692 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 28-Jun-92 15:09:54 Sb: #15690-Radio War Stories Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X) John, You didn't miss anything by not flying... we got shipped around in the back along with trucks and jeeps; it was cold, noisy and uncomfortable... and sometimes dangerous: the vehicles sometimes broke loose on takeoff, fuel cans with tightened lids would pop and spray fuel from pressure drops. Fortunately, such stuff always happened to the plane in front or behind the one I was on. Still, I'd rather drive instead :-) In the later keyboard drivers, a CTRL-space created a null. I'm redoing the driver again with input from Eddie Kuns and Tim Kientzle to add more. cheers - kev #: 15838 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 09-Jul-92 08:07:40 Sb: #15673-Radio War Stories Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) ->We would've killed for a portable digital receiver/DF-unit at the time ->(they got them a few years later on). Instead, we spent most of our ->time "knobbing" through several bands by hand. To this day, I hate ->static and headphones :) We shortwave listeners have been known to stay up 'til 4 AM local time listening to stations 2db above the static in languages we can't understand. ->was at the Field Station, which was about 50 klicks south of where I ->was... so I'd often go AWOL on the weekends to see her ;-) Lucky dog, you. ->So you were a Marine? Yikes! - kevin Drafted. I'm a lover, not a fighter I'm writing a more complex receiver control program now to run under multivu on the coco3. How complicated will this be to convert to run under the 68k windowing systems? How similar are the new systems to the coco data structures and system calls? tomn #: 15688 S1/General Interest 27-Jun-92 21:50:15 Sb: #OS9 Underground Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all Anyone out here on CI$ getting the OS9 UNDERGROUND Magazine yet?? Just got my first issue of the magazine, and it really looks great. How about it? Anyone else besides me?? (and some comments if you did get your premier issue of the magazine??) jim There are 3 Replies. #: 15689 S1/General Interest 28-Jun-92 03:05:07 Sb: #15688-OS9 Underground Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) I got a copy of it at the fest... In case it hasn't been mentioned here yet, "OS9 Underground" and "68xxx" magazines have merged (as of a few days ago). BTW, the cost of an ad in there is incredibly low right now, if there are any programmers here who've always wanted to sell something they've done. #: 15698 S1/General Interest 29-Jun-92 08:21:38 Sb: #15688-#OS9 Underground Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, Just a side comment -- CI$ is really not acceptable here. CIS is better. Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 15699 S1/General Interest 29-Jun-92 12:08:08 Sb: #15698-#OS9 Underground Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Shucks, Mark, you may indeed be correct that CIS is better here than CI$, but I've been calling CIS "CI$" since 1984, both here, on the service, and elsewhere. If Delphi, Genie or Prodigy had an "S" in it, I'd probably transpose a "$" for the S. No insult is meant towards CIS, but is IS a pay-per-usage service. I like CIS so much better than I frankly like Delphi, that I re-signed up for the service a short while ago. (I got my start telecommunicating right here on this service.) I'll try to keep my S's as S's, but if a $ shows up, then no insult intended towards either CIS or any member of this service. jim There are 2 Replies. #: 15700 S1/General Interest 29-Jun-92 14:37:48 Sb: #15699-#OS9 Underground Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, Well, if your fingers just happen to hit the $ instead of the S, then why don't you sign your name as Jim $utemeier? I believe you have gotten into a habit which will take some time to break. I for one do not like to see CI$ since it is all to often used as a cut-down for this service, which may be more expensive then any of the others (note I say "may"), but then, you get what you pay for don't you? Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 15706 S1/General Interest 29-Jun-92 21:35:21 Sb: #15700-#OS9 Underground Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) I agree, Mark...this service may indeed be more expensive than the others, but I do find the message bases here much more informative and to the point than, say, on Delphi. The questions here are straight, to the point, and the answers are eually straight and to the point. I joined CI$ (CIS) back in 1983 when I got my first CoCo, and remained a member for over 5 years. In all that time, I referred to this service as CI$...not as an insult, but more as a reminder to those who called my BBS that this was a pay-per-usage service (unlike my BBS, which was free, of course). Many others called this CI$, I do not own the copyright on this phrasing. But, I will try to not ruffle any feathers here, and try to remember CIS. BTW, didn't you just move to St. Louis?? (My old home town....) jim There is 1 Reply. #: 15710 S1/General Interest 30-Jun-92 09:30:34 Sb: #15706-#OS9 Underground Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, Calling this service CI$ on your BBS or on Delphi is one matter, doing it here is another. That is my point. Yeah, moved to the St. Louis area back in January, but just moved the family here at the beginning of June. We all like it a lot. See ya, Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15732 S1/General Interest 01-Jul-92 20:46:59 Sb: #15710-#OS9 Underground Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Who cares what you call this system? I'm sure that no one at H & R Block is upset that you call it CI$--so long as you keep signing on and spending your money. There is 1 Reply. #: 15736 S1/General Interest 01-Jul-92 23:29:18 Sb: #15732-#OS9 Underground Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I agree, Bob.....I was calling CIS "CI$" clear back in 1983, right here on CI$......as were many of the users of the service. (I sure didn't make it up myself). However, I don't want to ruffle any feathers, and Mark's feathers appear to be ruffled, so I will try to refrain from something I've done for almost 10 years. (sheesh) jim There are 2 Replies. #: 15744 S1/General Interest 02-Jul-92 09:01:02 Sb: #15736-OS9 Underground Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, My feathers are not ruffled, I just don't like to see that and I would like you to stop if you feel you can. If you can't, the so be it. Mark #: 15745 S1/General Interest 02-Jul-92 09:01:12 Sb: #15736-OS9 Underground Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Mark seem$ to have appointed him$elf the Compu$erve (aka CI$) apologi$t. I don't think you need to change anything. When someone has an allergy, an allergist will expose the patient to small doses of the substance to which the patient is allergic. Eventually, the person with the allergy will become desensitized to the substance. Lee #: 15799 S1/General Interest 06-Jul-92 23:53:43 Sb: #15700-#OS9 Underground Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) MAY ? be more expensive. I have been forced down to 300 baud to read the mail because of certain system's pricing structures. Not that they are not extremely good services you understand, just more expensive than I like to pay (what isn't you may well ask ). Message counts may be a good indicator of the effects of price structures. That's the lot for this topic. Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 15802 S1/General Interest 07-Jul-92 09:14:17 Sb: #15799-OS9 Underground Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 (X) Bob, If all you want to do is read mail online, then CIS is not the cheapest service to use. If, however, you are interested in getting the best publically available software, and download it at a reasonable cost, then CIS becomes more competitive with the other services. For that matter, grabbing the entire message bease every day or so, and then reading offline is much cheaper than online reading. This is why I said "may". Mark #: 15702 S1/General Interest 29-Jun-92 18:44:25 Sb: #15699-#OS9 Underground Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Hey Jim ... nice to see you back! Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 15707 S1/General Interest 29-Jun-92 21:36:54 Sb: #15702-OS9 Underground Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Thanks, Steve, it's good to be back here. I was trying to cut down on costs around here a couple of months back, but really missed all you guys here, and the great discussions we have had. Will chat with you soon. Take care. jim #: 15724 S1/General Interest 01-Jul-92 16:55:26 Sb: #15698-OS9 Underground Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Lighten up, Mark. It was probably just a typo. $eriously. Lee ;-) #: 15723 S1/General Interest 01-Jul-92 16:53:13 Sb: #15688-#OS9 Underground Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Yeah, I just got one, too. They do look pretty good. Lee There is 1 Reply. #: 15735 S1/General Interest 01-Jul-92 23:26:32 Sb: #15723-#OS9 Underground Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X) Wait until you see next month's Underground, Lee....the print should be better than the first month (although the first issue looked excellent), and there will be many more articles in the next issue, seeing as 68XXX is now a part of the Underground. Shucks, I think my own article about hasing in C will make this next issue. (sheepish grin) This next issue should really be quite impressive. jim There is 1 Reply. #: 15800 S1/General Interest 06-Jul-92 23:59:01 Sb: #15735-#OS9 Underground Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Boy - I had better subscribe right away. I don't know anything about hasing in C or any other language. :-) Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 15801 S1/General Interest 07-Jul-92 09:06:39 Sb: #15800-OS9 Underground Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 (X) Whoops, I sure did say "hasing", didn't I?? Meant hashing, of course.... Sorry for the typo..... jim #: 15691 S3/Languages 28-Jun-92 12:04:30 Sb: _ss_mgpb in MM/1 CGFX.L Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427 To: ALL Is there a way to map a get/put buffer on the MM/1 like the CoCo? I have been using _ss_mgpb(path,grpnum,bufnum) on the CoCo OS9 with cgfx.l and I would like to do the same with the MM/1 version of CGFX.L. Is there another way to do this or is this something entirely different? Thanks for anyones help! Bert Schneider #: 15693 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jun-92 17:03:10 Sb: #fidonet-software for OSK Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: All users To all os-9/freeks. Does anybody know if some 'fidonet'-software has been ported to OSK. I am trying to connect to the Danish fidonet from my OSK-system I have in the lab at my work. I am already running Email by using the TOP's mail-system for OSK, and this works fine regards ole@danelec.dk There is 1 Reply. #: 15701 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-92 17:23:12 Sb: #15693-#fidonet-software for OSK Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: ole hansen 100016,3417 (X) Ole: I too have been seeking FidoNet software for OSK. I don't think there is anything out there. Plenty of Mess-DOS sources (Bink, Maximus, etc.). Probably could be ported, but would be rather a pain in the rear.... Robert There are 2 Replies. #: 15708 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-92 21:41:31 Sb: #15701-#fidonet-software for OSK Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) I understand that RiBBS will EVENTUALLY be ported over to OSK, but that is supposed to be a couple of years off. StG should be coming out with an OSK BBS for OS9 pretty soon, and they claim that it'll have Usenet accesses, in addition to their own networking. StG, BTW, has probably 20-30 nodes hooked up now. Not a huge network like FidoNet, but it does have a pretty decent userbase. jim There is 1 Reply. #: 15715 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jun-92 18:20:02 Sb: #15708-fidonet-software for OSK Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Well, Usenet access does me little good - there aren't any local machines running uucp out here in Western Mass. Lots of FidoNet nodes though... Robert #: 15725 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jul-92 16:56:50 Sb: #15701-#fidonet-software for OSK Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) hello robert I have a unix-port for a fidonet-server, but the Microware and gnu c-compilers didn't like the dialect it was written in, so .... regards ole@danelec.dk There is 1 Reply. #: 15727 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jul-92 18:23:43 Sb: #15725-#fidonet-software for OSK Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: ole hansen 100016,3417 (X) Hmmmm. Most vanila UNIX code ports well to OSK. Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 15785 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jul-92 14:51:23 Sb: #15727-fidonet-software for OSK Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) hello robert I hope too. At least I found out why I had problem compiling under unix. 1 header-file was empty, and this caused a lot of strange messages from the compiler. regards ole #: 15694 S1/General Interest 28-Jun-92 17:09:47 Sb: #OS9 Underground Pricing Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: 76703,4227 (X) You got that right, Kevin. I wasn't sure exactly what the advertising prices were, so I gave Alan a call this morning to see what they were. For those who might be interested, here's a few representative prices: 1 month 3 months 6 months 1/4 page 7.50 15 30 1/2 page 10 20 34 IBC/IFC 25 50 95 Camera ready art is required for the ads, but, if you don't have something ready, Alan is a graphics artist, and can (easily and inexpensively) whip up something to your liking. Shucks, a programmer could invest only $30 and have an ad displaying his work for 6 months. I'll bet beer, for most programmers, is more than $30 for 6 months. (grin) jim There is 1 Reply. #: 15695 S1/General Interest 28-Jun-92 21:01:56 Sb: #15694-OS9 Underground Pricing Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Yah, I told him that his ad prices were too low :-), but he said that's to give more people an opportunity to get started. Sounds good to me! #: 15696 S5/OS9 Users Group 28-Jun-92 22:07:59 Sb: #15364-#announcement Fm: John Wight 76370,2100 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) As for OS-9 CN, we have success in communicating with those in Europe and Australia as well. I have been thinking about the many discussions of ideas related to OS-9 CN, and the old/new users group, in particular what you had to say. I feel very strongly the OS-9 Community needs both. The Users' Group is better suited to support business users, and those that can easily afford to access such services as Delphi, CIS, and the Internet family of networks, and to send in for membership for the Users' Group. I will apply for membership, although the first time didn't work out well for me, or many of us. OS-9 CN has its place, too. OS-9 CN is for amateur users of OS-9, in particular those with an extremly small budget. Many Australian and European users are now able to communicate with us because we use the most inexpensive means. On the other hand, services such as Delphi are prohibitively expensive (Delphi is $18.00 an hour for me, although CIS is $12.80 an hour living in Hawaii). It is even more expensive for Canadian users to communicate. Because we are amateurs and use the most inexpensive means to communicate, OS-9 users outside of the U.S. have given OS-9 CN much support in their communications efforts. I feel we need both groups to serve the OS-9 Community, so why not make sure there is communications between our groups? As for an efficient means, we are working on it. I tried Internet/UUCP, but lost my feed and don't know where to get another affordable one. I come to CIS regularly (once every one or two weeks), so we can start with that. Also, many other representatives of OS-9 CN visit CIS and Delphi regularly, and I am compiling a list of user names. There is 1 Reply. #: 15772 S5/OS9 Users Group 03-Jul-92 22:15:48 Sb: #15696-announcement Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: John Wight 76370,2100 Nice to see you are around. I thought you had disappeared. I certainly think the OS-9 community needs the OS-9 User Group. I know the first time didn't work out well. In fact, it probably bothered me more than you to see all of my several years of hard work go down the drain. But I believe that it will work better this time. Living where I do, the value of OS-9 CN isn't as clear. As I have mentioned before, I don't know where to find Fido or what I would do with it if I found it. But I trust you judgement that it is useful to a group of OS-9 users. And I don't see how the goals of the OS-9 UG and the OS-9 CN conflict with each other or exclude the other. Surely some folks will want to be members of both. I agree that effort should be put into cross pollination. For example, perhaps the OS-9 CN would like to use the MOTD to keep non-Fido people abreast of the OS-9 CN doings. Like you, I don't know an efficient means to stay in communication. A local public access Unix connection is reasonable in price, but isn't available everywhere. For now, CIS is a common intersection. StG net is growing, but again the cost of moving news around has to be borne by someone. Have you tried to interest the StG guys in OS-9 CN? There appears to be some redundant effort there. #: 15697 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 28-Jun-92 23:00:24 Sb: #15616-#6309 Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 To: randy pischke 75460,205 (X) I glad that I could be of help. I just got back from home leave ( a time in 've been wondering if there are other chips in the COCO that have upgrades/replacements available.--Br. Jeremy, CSJW There is 1 Reply. #: 15809 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 07-Jul-92 21:57:56 Sb: #15697-#6309 Fm: randy pischke 75460,205 To: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 (X) I received my upgrade today so I dove in and did it. Only one problem, when using Multi-vue I get many flickering "ghost" lines at the top of the screen. They seem linked to the mouse pointer. If I move the pointer down, the lines move lower down on the screen. They move back up as the pointer moves up. Do you have any similar problems? There is 1 Reply. #: 15829 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 08-Jul-92 22:04:47 Sb: #15809-#6309 Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 To: randy pischke 75460,205 (X) Dear Randy, No, I do not seem to have that problem. I use the GSHELL1.24a version and have some other patches. Unfortunately, I did not always keep good notes of how I put the boot/system together. But I will check to see if I have anything that greatly deviates from stock. I have the patched GRFDRV and the INIT patch to fix the rollover problem. I know that they are here on CIS. I'll be in touch. With all best wishes, Br. Jeremy, CSJW There is 1 Reply. #: 15854 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 10-Jul-92 01:12:10 Sb: #15829-6309 Fm: randy pischke 75460,205 To: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 (X) Br. Jeremy, I also use gshell 1.24a. Have install the grfdrv patch but haven't heard of the INIT patch. Maybe I should get that also. Any modification that I hear of I make to my system so I have quite a few patches to my system. As I mentioned to Pete Lyall, I reinstalled my 6809 and the vertical 'ghost' lines that were appearing on my hi-res screen on white backgrounds went away. I will check on getting a replacement 6309. Take care 'til I hear from you again. Randy. #: 15703 S3/Languages 29-Jun-92 20:39:06 Sb: #CGFX.L for MM/1 OSK Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427 To: 71076,76 (X) Carl, I am interested in porting some C code from CoCo Level II to OSK MM/1 but I need some assistance with your CGFX library. Does _gs_scadd do the same thing as the _ss_mgpb call in cgfx.l in CoCo OS9? Also, do you really mean Point(path,x,y) instead of Point(path)? 99% of my code is compatible except for the loading and saving of .vef files for graphics windows. Obviously I have to go to another format for saving the pictures. Any suggestions? Bert Schneider There is 1 Reply. #: 15711 S3/Languages 30-Jun-92 09:33:32 Sb: #15703-CGFX.L for MM/1 OSK Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bert Schneider 70244,427 (X) Bert, You should be addressing your questions to Mike Haaland, the author of the MM/1 C graphics library. I can tell you though, if something is not in the library that was in the CoCo version, it is probably because it is not supported by the OSK version of windio. If you haven't, you might what to check the libraries for the latest version of cgfx for the MM/1. Mike did a newer version for the latest release of windio and you might have an older copy. Look in DL16 or DL12. Mark #: 15716 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jun-92 18:59:16 Sb: #WindIO ideas? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: all Anyone have any *minor* suggestions before I post windio v42 in a couple of days? For example, someone suggested that the default keypad mode on boot should be numeric (ie: hitting NUMLOCK would actually change to cursor key mode)... since everyone has separate cursor keys and thus the numbers would be available right away. Sounds like a good idea to me. Stuff along those lines. Then we can start on the big stuff (allowing programs to move/resize/etc). thanks! - kev There are 2 Replies. #: 15733 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jul-92 20:47:07 Sb: #15716-#WindIO ideas? Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Not a suggestion, but I do notice that sometimes my keyboard will not switch from NUMLOCK mode to normal. Seems that after the first toggle it doesn't want to switch back. Don't know if this is the keyboard or the software? Also, why not have the initial mode as an option (maybe set in /dd/sys/keyboard.env). This file could also have other options in it (like having the Fkeys generate values, instead of being screen selectors). There is 1 Reply. #: 15750 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jul-92 10:31:15 Sb: #15733-WindIO ideas? Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X Bob, I note a similar problem with bth num lockand caps lck on my sstem. Itgls fine butthe lmps on he keyoard wn't reelct i's propr staus. Not sureif it's ord prolem or ot .. I've ust goten usedit. Steve #: 15737 S12/OS9/6800K) 01-Jl-92 3:40:3 Sb: #15716-WindIOideas Fm: Ken Scale 74646,227 To: Darling76703,427 (X Openihe foodgats jus a crac... KD>Anyone have ay *minor*in> sggestionsbefore I indiov42 in a KD>couple y? Maybe a few... utfirst, let e say tha the "stcript you poste tooCo the other ay ble me aay: I ad noidea soe of tose thngs wee evn on the drawig b lt alon usabl (yea, "unspporte"). I ent rght outndstartedlookin for a new mnitor withhigherpersistnce tan my crrent Sears/Sanyo,use mthinksa type7 scren wil get alot mre use wit those capabilitieeent. reat jb! Back on topic.. a cuple gltches have ncountered wih v41, tou probably now ofmost aleady: 1) Alt-backarrow cnflicts wth ALT-TRL-B indow l(yeah a detal left ver frhe lat-minue move eyoardmouse to CTRL-as) 2) The moue ct/pasfer eems t get te wrog sco-ordnates n screens oher tx26 types. 3) The moue seemccssionaly getexcomunicatd (nobutton Mouse System drive Ed 4,$F8C5A6 4) I have had a seres of sots (garbag) scatterrd acr5 (type 7 moved/resized and ith /w6 & w7 oerlaysunderstest dmo). hesespots were writen when TasOM (runnig on /w3) emtted its"CONNECT" blls. Seemed to oupleof spots pr each of 3l. Happene twice. BTW this is on a 9-eg mmory ma. Ba pointr in he "bel" r, perchance? Could also e in TasCM, of cours. Hmmm... guess I'm kinda v onight.. coninuednext mesage. There is 1 Reply. #: 1573S12OS9/600 (OSK) 01-Jul-2 23:44:b: #1577-WindIOideas? Fm:Scale 7464,2237 To: cales 4646,237 (X (continuem previous ae)... As for the suggestins (yo can pck whih are minor" g>): a) Folks withous needa way ithe killthe reize/moe keyoard actvatio, or away ofcompletng itfrom he key b) Progrmmers need way of dtermiing i an aplicaton isrunnin under K-Windo gtstatcall giing adetermiistic esult oul sure be nice. Or as I suggsted onemail, efinig a ":KW:"(or some uch) r in Temcap. aybe ven a "KW=42: for eition 2, e.g. kw = tgetnm("KW"); if (kw > 3) {..} ned a stndard sooh. c) Signalswhen windanged I woud lie to se codes to _ss_dcon() and _ff) to enabe and disale senf a sinal to a pocesswhen ito has ben chaged/rsized(defaut, no sl, of cours). It woul have bee really nie (and eay) to havebeen able ut upport forthese in m "sc" and"ispell" orts. d) A bigge mousecut/pase buffr we nice e) Then thee's thse F-kes... Anyways, cheer, and keepup th goodwork.se! Ken (hat sunurn ad goate acros the upper able i Chicgo...) #: 15717 S9/809 (CCo) 30-Ju-92 2153:40 Sb: Data Bass Fm: BILL JLF 7263,226 To: AlDoes anyoneknow of a ata Bse whih wil allow morn a thee (3) evel so ata Mater frm Compterwar (theLevel2 verion of rofile)allows three evels of orts,oesnt allo furter sors on the list'. know his isprobaby an od s, new on orum Thanks Bill elf #: 15719 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jul-92 2:20:7 donet-oftwar for OS Fm: Jim Sutmeier 0673,154 To: Robller 1450,432 (X) Shucks, if thereare a lot f Fido nods, andUsenet noin you part f the countr sugest yo openup a Used, rater tha a Fid feedI was a BBSoperatr from e984 unti the end o 1991 ( srry, gus) is hat if ou have oportuity to ffer omethig uniue to our commuity, thenI'd est you go ith that,e than oing wth wha's alrher. Fro a SysOp's pont of vie, the priarideation is tat you want our investmet to bsy ad attrat calers. If you hasmething uniqe to your area, you sand a beter chanc of gettingcalles, andkeepin them. jim Sutemeier There is 1ly #: 15728 S12/OS9/68000(OSK) 01-Jul-92 4:2 Sb: #15719-fidonetsoftware fo OSK Fm: RobertHeller71450,432 To: Jim Suteeie 706731754 (X Jim: I have nothing nst offerin something uique. Wihin the FioNet world, mypresent sys rather uique - I un a BB on a Sride 40. Ths is a 6800d system. The opeating systeP/M-68K lyerde on a ti-User BIS" (a kindof tatcherrunnig unde multile copies ofa single-user O/S). S software s UNXcess .0.2, hich ws writen fo UNIX, but I hact for CPM-68K. I se a homegrown maier progra (Wolf/68K) with a home-grow echomailhandler. Te probem wit offerng a Uenet is cot of imorting Also most of the peple who wind a Usent feedintersting an gia the Int conectionto th localcollees (UMAmherst, mith Collee, Amherst Colleg, Hampsolleg, and ount Hlyoke olleg). One of he main reasons the'tinthe wayof Useet out h the ack of UNIX systet ae not art oflege cmpus sytem. Veryusinesss running UNIX hops an thosefew ar too sall an poor o handl muchd their own EMail over ucp. While mypresent ystem wors, it s limitd in was (notthe last of which i har- th 'ole Strid is geting old and epair and replat pats are hardt comethe hrd dis contoller ied rcen my system was own fr oo monhs, unil I maageocatea replcement machine () If I couldmove to OK, tulss o a problem migrating to newwer ardware wuld be posble also mmore ffectve us of the Strie as wel (ithas 10serial pors, but CP/M68K, dispte tuti-User BIS" is a sinle-user / inge-tas/S). Robert #: 15722 S1/General Interest 01-Jul-92 16 Sb: #15598-Thes Operting ystem Fm: Lal172 To: Kevin Drling 6703,427 (X) Theos, hmmmmm!!!! I wonifDan ha aske aboutthis o.sys oer in the Reigion Foum. d like Teos would b something hat wold run n G.O..-likecomputr. (G.O.D. bein and arony which meas "Graphi Omniscint Device") Lee #:15762 S/Generest 03Jul-9 10:5:05 Sb: #15597-#Theos Oprating Fm: Fred Carter 6646,3172 To: Dn Dalen70641,551 (X H: What is Teos? Frmessage I gther you ae using a ystem with thos Oeratin Syste on iheos s optimzed fr mult-user ata bae application. Eachdata ores infomation abou the data tpe of eac field of a record. (IT comman can be use on any ata fie) Theo may sund lik a mythlogreek gd, but believ it is an acronym for"THE Operaing System. Before tere was86, ther was OASIS ("Onine Aplicaiofo Sysem" or omething which ran o a Z-80. The systemsuppoted abose per Mz of sstem cock sped. The Z80 sysems runnOSIS (Altosfor exampl) usually hd 256K of AM and 40 to 400 MBd disk stoage. 10 y this wold have cst $2K. The hard isks wee of size sing aSMD (torageModul Devie) Irface Averae seek ime was 20-2 millisecons and trasfer rateswere 1/Sec. Troughthe useof ovelays, rogram could e arbitraily large The ommand lin interpretr is simliar o REXX and ws modelIB mainframe (Systm/36?). he comman line interprter was refully oaded script languae. Appicatios coul be witten n BASIC,and later C Print Spooling is buil in and mltiple prnters nd prit frete. Theos liXor OS-. Theos ht foundationsolidly n the MISnagement Iformationms) wold. Whil I haen't sed the'38sion the Z-80 ad 808 versire roust andefficient. Regards Fred Carter (7666,3172) There is 1 eply. #: 15773 S1/Genera Interst Jul-9 00:0:11 Sb: #1562-Theo Operatng Sysem Fm: Kevin arling 6707 To: FredCarte 7664,3172 X) Fred, Was it Oasis or Oasys? I remmber the ltter... i was multuser and ad automatcrd-locing lke OS-. best - kev #: 15726 S10/OS9/609 (CoCo) 01Jul-92 17:6:29 Sb: #15617-Smartwach Clock Fm: Lee Veal 7172 To: randypischke75460205 (X Randy, saw part of yur exchang withKevin. I justuploaed SMAT.AR toDL10tll robablybe avalable tmorrow r when evr the sysps activate i Lee #: 15729 S3/es 01-Jul-9 19:2:56 Sb: #CGX.L Bet Schnider 7244,47 To: MarkGriffit I found out that all isthe Verion 3 isue o CGFX. - I ned tha to sav my image dik! So far,98% of thecod great o the MM/1! t alo workseat eal fater! shouldhave m MANDL09K pogram out onthe street voon (oce I get he new cgx.lion 3 updte). Theimages ar breaktaking o the M/1! Iam sur Paulther will e intersted!See ya Bert P.S. Is Bret W. still in S.? I'vebeen tying toget hol of hm but he doesn't anwerSee ya again! Brt The1 Reply. #: 15746 S3/Language l-92 09:03:8 Sb: #1572-#CGFX. Fm: Mark Gri07,41 Tot chneidr 7024,427 () Bert, Yeah, Bret is still around, but he a prety lowprofilethes days. don't knowwhat hs phon numbe is, ut he oes po in m timeto tim. Good to heouhave somn coolfor th MM/1 Can't wat tit. Mark Ther 1 Repy. #: 15789 S3/Lnguages 05-Ju 16:8:26 Sb: #15746-CGF.L Fm: Scneider7024,427 Toar Griffth 7600,41 () I got ahold of him! He s still here ieU.S. andhas a sailig busines! As soon a I get he newCGFX. libral have my ANDEL09K eady for Pal. I have run theimage from stubiver Ibuilt o testit out o makeit a totally uiendl progam, I eed th new CGibrary. See ya! Bert Seder #: 15741 S12OS9/6800SK) 02Jul-92 02:1145 Sb: #C_Quesion Fm: LARRYOLSON 7227,347 To: all C guru ... Would someone please poit out thee with th following supposedly smpleC progrm. ------------------------------------------ #include main() { int x; char *a[5]; for (x = 0; x <= 5;++x) getsa[x]); for (x = 0; <= 5; +x) print("%s\[x]); exit(0); } -------------------------------------------- This is n example out of the book Going From Basic To C. It is supposed to get 5 characters from the keyboard and then print them, but all I get from it is a crashed machine. So far the other examples that I have tried, have worked, but for some reason unknown to me this one doesn't work. What simple thing am I overlooking ???? There are 2 Replies. #: 15742 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jul-92 06:58:37 Sb: #15741-#C_Question Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Larry - Your problem are the lines: char *a[5]; .... AND gets(a[x]); If that's the way the book reads, you should shoot the author! In the statement: char *a[5] You're stating that 'a' is an array of pointers with 5 elements. These pointers point at SOMETHING of type 'char' - but WHAT? You haven't allocated any space for them to point at, nor have you initialized the pointers to point AT anything. There's no magic in C.. you have to do all the dirtywork yourself (grin). This problem doesn't rear its ugly head until: gets(a[x]); Which says: get a string [terminated by a return] from the keyboard (STDIN), and stuff it in the location pointed to by the pointer I'm giving you.... Well, we already know that the pointer is crap, and we have no idea what it points to, AND whatever it DOES point to will be clobbered. This program could be made to work by changing the declaration of 'a' to: char a[5][256], which states that 'a' is an array of 5 arrays of 256 characters. This pre-allocates space to put the strings in, and also implicitly supplies pointers to the 0th character of each 256 character array when you call it a[0], a[1], etc. (in C, an array NAME by itself is the same as the pointer to the 1st [0th] element of the array... i.e. 'a' is the same as &a[0], and a[4] is the same a[4][0]. Goo luk! Pete Theres1 Repy. #: 15S12/S9/6800 (OS) 03-ul-92 01:1249 S1542-#C_uestio Fm: LARRY ON 72227,3 To: Pete Lyal 7670,4230 X) Pete, Sounds like I beter thrat book awy, or at lest pu it awy until I kno somethng abot C andn spo mistaes likethat. e was using that routine toshow hthe follngBasic outine ionvrted to C. 10 DIM5) 20 FOR x=0 TO 3 INPUT a$() 40 T x 50 FOR x=0 TO 6RIT a$(x 70 NEXT x 80 EN Thanks Pete, Ill seewhat oher truble can get ito Larry er is 1 Rply. #: 15765 S12OS9/6800 (OS) 03-Jul92 1326:24 #1556-#C_uestio Fm: Pete Lyll 7673,4230 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,34) The problem her is tht Basicdoes atomati (dc)g alloationa well as othvariables).You'reright ... oss th book Thatept ws at such lemntary lvel that tis guound to hose ouup at the moe complex levl. *ABSOLUTE BEST* book I have eer seenhe C eophte (andthe oe thatok the ie forme afer buing ore than half dozen othes) was "Therimr PluThee Grou. Eading, ots ofexamplend a god sense of hmor aswelll wort the 25 r soIW, the local ollege uses it their C txtbook There is Repl. #: 15712/6800 (OSK) 04-Jul-9 03:22:1 Sb: #15765-C_Qion Fm: LARRY OLSON 7227,3467 To: Pete Lyal 76703,423 (X) Pete Thanks forthe tip onthe book(C Primer Pus), I'll pck it up.I've gota dozenC books hee but none farry #: 15752 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jul-92 23:57:55 Sb: #15741-#C_Question Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Larry - I'd have never come up with as elegant and simple a solution as Pete, but I thought I'd add some thoughts. I know that you are also a 6809 rma programmer, so another way to help learn C is to look at the compiler output (eg: "cc test.c -ca" which will stop with a "test.a" source listing). For example, the goofed up source they gave (shortened up here) was: main() { int x; char *a[5]; for (x = 0; x <= 5; ++x) gets(a[x]); } Compiled with the -ca option, you get this (#comments are mine): psect test_c,0,0,0,0,0 * main() * { ttl main main: pshs u ldd #_1 lbsr _stkcheck * int x; * char *a[5]; * for (x = 0; x <= 5; ++x) leas -12,s # make room on stack for int_x and 5 pointers (2+5*2) clra clrb std 10,s # x=0 lbra _4 # enter "for" loop * gets(a[x]); _2 ldd 10,s # x aslb # multiply * 2 as index into array ([x]) rola leax 0,s # point to beginning of array leax d,x # now point to a[x] ldd 0,x # pick up a[x] <<< contains pointer to ?? nothing! pshs d # push on stack as parameter for gets lbsr gets # call gets function leas 2,s # drop parameter * } _5 ldd 10,s # x = x+1 addd #1 std 10,s _4 ldd 10,s # x cmpd #5 # <= 5 ? lble _2 # yes, loop _3 leas 12,s # else exit puls u,pc _1 equ -82 endsect So it was pretty easy to see that the parameter picked up and passed to the gets function pointed to who-knows-what, yah? (cont'd in reply) There are 3 Replies. #: 15753 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jul-92 23:58:24 Sb: #15752-C_Question Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) So now we look at Pete's example (very slightly modified): main() { int x; char a[5][200]; for (x = 0; x <= 5; ++x) gets(a[x]); } psect test_c,0,0,0,0,0 * main() * { ttl main main: pshs u ldd #_1 lbsr _stkcheck * int x; * char a[5][200]; * * for (x = 0; x <= 5; ++x) leas -1002,s # make room for int_x and 5*200 one-byte chars clra clrb std 1000,s # x=0 lbra _4 # enter "for" loop * gets(a[x]); _2 ldd 1000,s # x pshs d ldd #200 # size of each array element lbsr ccmult # multiply stack param (x) * array_element_size leax 0,s # point to beginning of array leax d,x # point to a[x][0] pshs x # push parameter for gets lbsr gets # call gets function leas 2,s * } _5 ldd 1000,s # x=x+1 addd #1 std 1000,s _4 ldd 1000,s # etc cmpd #5 lble _2 _3 leas 1002,s puls u,pc _1 equ -1072 endsect Now, even tho we had to guess at the function of ccmult, it was still clear that we were passing the address of an _allocated_ char subarray to the gets function... and not just a pointer to hyperspace. Does this make sense? The other thing that looking at -ca output does is to impress the fact that C is basically an assembly macro language... and that *pointers are just variables being used as extra "index registers". best - kevin #: 15755 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Jul-92 00:24:00 Sb: #15752-#C_Question Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Elegant shmelegant... you spotted it, and in what I'd consider a denser jungle. When are you coming over to C, anyhoo? It'll be C++ time soon.... Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15760 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Jul-92 07:13:52 Sb: #15755-#C_Question Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Ha! No way would I have come up with allocating a two-dimension array like you did, to make all the rest of his example work. At least, not quickly. That's my problem. I can't quite think in C yet (I can read it better than write it). It's still far easier for me to write utils in Basic09, too. But I admit that I've started converting my window driver to C. Seems that I have no choice for OS-9000... :-) If/when I ever finish, I might know C. I should've started learning in earnest back when you and Carl did. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 15766 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Jul-92 13:32:22 Sb: #15760-C_Question Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Carl predated me by years, and was my mentor and father confessor when I got deep into the quicksand. Best C advice? Assume that the compiler does nothing FOR you... your analysis of C as a macro assembler couldn't be more accurate. The beauty is that the #defines and functions allow you to move into a level of abstraction that is truly close to high level language. It's NEVER too late. Hell - it took me 3-4 years to break the mental block against C (1983-1986). Pete #: 15757 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Jul-92 01:36:03 Sb: #15752-#C_Question Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Keven, That is what I need to start doing, looking at the assembly, and getting familiar with how C compiles these little example routines. Yes, I'm trying to tackle C again, no hard drive yet but I can set up a large ram disk, which makes the compile times lots faster. Its only a problem when the computer crashes, then it is a five minute boot up to load the ram disk back up again. Larry There is 1 Reply. #: 15761 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Jul-92 07:17:45 Sb: #15757-#C_Question Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Larry, If I'm not sure about what something I've written will do, I almost always compile it to asm source first... a bad mistake will glare out at me and I can avoid the usual crash/reboot C learning cycle :-) I've been after someone to port one of those small C interpreters. Maybe even make it interactive like Basic. Something like that would really cut down on the C learning time for most people, I think. Quicker feedback. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 15777 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jul-92 03:16:36 Sb: #15761-#C_Question Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, I'm not real familiar withOSK assembly yet, so the mistakes wouldn't glare out at me like 6809 assembly would. Its just going to take time and work to get the hang of it. While I have you here, I was wondering if there will be an SS.Tone like syscall for K-Windows. Digital recording and playing is great but I would think that sometimes you would want to have the computer generate some sound. Larry There is 1 Reply. #: 15779 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jul-92 03:34:09 Sb: #15777-#C_Question Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Larry, Oh. Oh! I don't know why I assumed you were compiling on the 6809 instead of under OSK. No SS.Tone thingie yet, altho I've done parts of it. A lot of features are being worked on in parallel. Either because they're inter-related, or simply because they're too boring to do all at once . There is 1 Reply. #: 15784 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jul-92 14:50:25 Sb: #15779-C_Question Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, Will it be just like SS.Tone, or will it have more capability ? The reason I ask,thinking of porting this sound editor that I have been working on. Larry #: 15748 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 02-Jul-92 09:21:26 Sb: CoCo System For Sale Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: All Attention: CoCo3 System For Sale! Includes: CoCo3 128K FD502 Controller w/ 1 Disk Drive CM-8 RGB Monitor DMP-130 Printer Deskmate 3 2 Game cartridges 2 joysticks They want $300 for whole system package. They do not want to break up the system. The system is practically new, it was used very sparingly. If you're interested leave me an E-Mail message and I'll give you their phone numbers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _ _ _____ _ _// ' ) / // __/ _ _ ( / _ __. // (_/\__ Also, why not have the initial mode as an option (maybe set in >/dd/sys/keyboard.env). >This file could also have other options in it (like having the Fkeys generate >values, instead of being screen selectors). How about using the key (this key is not used, is it?) to forward cycle the windows and maybe - or - to go backwards. Keith CIS:70541,1413 INTERNET:keith@khmarch.bowlgreen.oh.us There is 1 Reply. #: 15774 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jul-92 00:07:19 Sb: #15764-reply to mess # 15716 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith - of course SCROLL LOCK turns on/off its light (unless CTRL is down), so to use it for flipping screens a person would want to cover up the light :) I keep thinking that one key should wake up a background "master" process which could have a menu for forking new shell windows, etc. Gotta play with the idea some tho. I go along with Bob and your idea of makingn the keybd programmable... just not sure if it'll be in v42 ;) thx! - kev #: 15768 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Jul-92 14:56:22 Sb: C code on the MM/1 Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: All C guru needed... Could someone show me how to take this code (RICK ADAMS UUCP Ver.AK. The following c from dscriptc #include #inc ern int port extern car phon[80ern int ebuglv; exten inthook struct sgbuf ot; KPPED COE> case k': /* See pae B-12 in 8K appedixes anual*/ stat(0, prt, &opt); pt.sgbaud =00; /*50 baud setstt(0, prt, &ot); write (ort, \0", 1; /* Switch o org. bau rate * pt.sg_aud = 0; /* 400 ba setstat(0 port, &op f (deuglvl>= 2) pritf(" 2) pintf""); brea; MORE CODEGOES HEE )-------------------------- |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| pin# 1 x <---- first four pins (two on each side) Also, I'd bet that as long as you don't have any other devices addressed (by using a Y-cable or some sort of mini-bus in the J&M controller, for instance) at the location where MPI's slot select byte is located, then the slot select coding in the SW routines shouldn't bother anything. On the other hand, if it does cause anomalous problems, then all you should have to do is NOP the slot select coding in the routines. In SWCLOCK2, for instance, the code starts at $01EB and looks like this: Addr 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F 0 2 4 6 8 A C E ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---------------- 0100 E034 30AE .... .... ** **** **** 01E0 3401 1A50 B6FF 7FD6 9034 0686 11B7 FF7F 4..P6..V.4...7.. 01F0 C4FC F7FF 9096 9185 0126 0CF6 FFA7 3406 D|w....F.&.v.'4. If worse comes to worse, you could change the 8611B7FF7F to 1212121212, but according to the guy that I talked to, you shouldn't have to resort to this. The coding for selecting the MPI slot is exactly the same in all the various SW routines (SWCLOCKn, GETCLKn, SWSETn), it's just in different places. Lee There is 1 Reply. #: 15822 S1/General Interest 08-Jul-92 19:00:33 Sb: #15821-Smartwatch Fm: randy pischke 75460,205 To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X) Lee- Thanks for the information. It really helps me to understand how things work. You are correct that the 24 pin ROM need to have the top four pins of the 28 pin socket left open. I have a 28 pin ROM that was modified to work in a 24 pin socket and it has the top 4 pins bent up and tied together. Randy. #: 15815 S1/General Interest 08-Jul-92 05:11:10 Sb: Delphi poll results Fm: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 To: Carl Kreider Carl, I have uploaded the results of the poll from Delphi. They are in area 14. The file is called CARL.TXT. #: 15825 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Jul-92 20:33:27 Sb: #15503-wind38 ?? Fm: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Just got preliminary version of kwindows today. Have lots of questions since no docs but the most important is : How (or where) do I patch the keyboard driver to make the arrow keys work? I want to use them for dynastar and a basic program we use to manage our printshop I want them to output the same codes as the coco keyboard 8, 9, 10, and 12 I beleive. I DO have the program running ! #: 15832 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 08-Jul-92 22:42:54 Sb: #Shell+ Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 To: All OK, I just came across a strange problem. After lazily putting it off for years, I finally patched Shell+ 2.1 to turn on wildcards. Worked fine, except when I went to use a memory script that I have been using for many months. The script reads like this: chd /r0 prompt Directory? var.2 prompt File (no extension)? var.0 tmode .1 -echo prompt Keyword? var.1 display d a tmode .1 echo crypt %2/%0.cr %1 rename crypt.out %0 It works fine with wildcards OFF, but with wildcards ON the first and third prompts do not display (the second one does). Otherwise it seems to work fine. I turned wildcards back OFF again and, once more, the script works fine. What? This does not make much sense. In case it matters, I don't use the provided modpatch script to make change, but simply toggle the value of 04DC in Shell between 26 and 27 hex. Any suggestions? There is 1 Reply. #: 15833 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 08-Jul-92 22:49:13 Sb: #15832-#Shell+ Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X) Ian - Could it be the question marks??????????? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15834 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 08-Jul-92 23:08:11 Sb: #15833-#Shell+ Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, I was just coming back on to mention that. What the devil is wrong with using the question marks at that point? Why does the effect differ? On the second prompt, I get File (no extension)m t which seems odd. I realize that the ?'s are single character wildcards, but can't see why they have the effect that they do. Ian There are 2 Replies. #: 15837 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 09-Jul-92 06:39:42 Sb: #15834-Shell+ Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X) Ian, It is the question marks. I remember this problem from many years ago, and I think I finally gave up and removed the question marks from things like this. Its been so long I can't remember if 2.1 with that patch allowed for temporarily disabling the wild cards (something like a special character at the beginning of the line). I do remember that the results were sometimes not what was expected, like the example you gave. Bill #: 15840 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 09-Jul-92 08:46:42 Sb: #15834-Shell+ Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X) Well, I can't speak for SHELL+, but the unix shell would see that as a command to run the prompt command with an argument of any filename that matches the template 'Directory?' or whatever... Try enclosing the question + text in quotes (single/double) and see what happens. Pete #: 15861 S1/General Interest 11-Jul-92 02:49:42 Sb: #C Books Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, I picked up that book yesterday, and from the looks of it so far I will be spending alot less time on here asking dumb questions. This one is very informative and easy to follow. I saw your mention of the book C The Complete Reference, which was funny because I had seen that book and picked it up also. The names have changed a little, C Primer Plus is now New C Primer Plus and the other one is C The Complete Reference Second Edition. For others that might be interested: The Waite Group's New C Primer Plus ISBN 0-672-22687-1 by Mitchell Waite and Stephen Prata $29.95 U.S. / $37.95 CAN. published by SAMS copyright 1990 This edition covers ANSI C, UNIX, Microsoft C and Turbo C C The Complete Reference Second Edition ISBN 0-07-881538-X by Herbert Schildt $28.95 published by Osborn,McGraw-Hill copyright 1987, 1990 This edition covers C++ and ANSI C Thanks again for the tip on the book. Larry There is 1 Reply. #: 15863 S1/General Interest 11-Jul-92 08:20:00 Sb: #15861-#C Books Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Thanks for the update on the book titles Larry. It looks like you'll be spending your weekend reading! Enjoy them - they're both excellent. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15864 S1/General Interest 11-Jul-92 10:20:05 Sb: #15863-C Books Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, Yes, reading and tyeing . I thought about ordering the disks that are available for both books, but then entering all these examples by hand I think will help it stick. Larry #: 15866 S15/Hot Topics 11-Jul-92 21:13:14 Sb: #OS9 Underground Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: ALL I FINALLY had the opportunity to watch a video of the Atlanta CoCoFest last April. I thoroughly enjoyed the meeting that Frank, Ed and Paul had. The person who taped the meeting of 'the big three' also taped the meeting that Kevin Darling had. Kevin said one thing there in the meeting room, and that is the purpose of this message. He was talking in reference to new magazines that come onto the marketplace from time to time. He said (and I quote) "If you wait 3-6(-12) months to subscribe to the new magazines, then YOU'VE KILLED THE MAGAZINE". Well, we've got a new kid on the block - the OS9 Underground, that is just starting to get off wobbly feet, and really produce some quality stuff. Are we gonna let it die by not subscribing?? It's up to each of us not to let this happen to this magazine. It's only $18 a year, so it's no back breaker on the price end. Call 818:894-0012 to order your free copy of the magazine. If you like it, then place your order. jim There is 1 Reply. #: 15881 S15/Hot Topics 12-Jul-92 21:15:10 Sb: #15866-OS9 Underground Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, I did get a free copy already, and was impressed. You're right, we all need to subscribe, and NOW! I'll be sending my order out first thing next week. Thanks for the reminder. Bill #: 15873 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jul-92 14:42:22 Sb: tc70 Kwindows Fm: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 To: Kevin Darling I have patched the keydrv to make the arrow keys work on my prelim ver of tc70 kwindows. I have also succesfully added fonts via the mm1 35 fonts file from delphi. Even the gifshow file viewer works but.... colors are all wrong. The colors for the color command supplied are wrong.. looks like green and red are interchanged. also f9 and f10 circle thru the windows but in the same direction. Would be nice if the went forward, other backward. Had a little trouble getting kwindows to work with dynastar but the answer came from KSCALES: check tmode and see that pag=26. I then realized my screens have 26 lines! Who nice. How would the gifshow file and the color command colors be fixed? looking forward to the new enhanced kwindows for tc70! #: 15878 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jul-92 18:10:05 Sb: #printf problem Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Has anyone else noticed a problem with the printf() family? The following code fragement works fine by itself, but in a large program it doesn't: switch (fmt){ ..... case 'H': sprintf(buff,"%X",value); break; case 'h': sprintf(buff,"%x",value); break; .... The entire format loop works fine--expect when the %X format is used. In this case a single 'x' is printed. However, %x, does work alright. I've put a bunch of debug code (printf()s) in the real program and the printf() react the same way. For some reason, uppercase hex doesn't work. However, when I just extract the code out and stick it in a test program, all works alright. I've really pulled my hair on this one--even checked the crc while the program is running. No luck. I've cobbled a work-around for now by using %x and then converting the string to uppercase if fmt=='H'. Either there is a bug in sprintf(), or my program is cobblering something. Any ideas? There is 1 Reply. #: 15886 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Jul-92 08:49:05 Sb: #15878-#printf problem Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Why not try reversing the two sprintf lines...i.e., do the lower case 'h' first and then the uppercase. If there is a pointer clobbering something, it should make the 'x' statement not work then. This is what I expect is the problem (a wild pointer). Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 15897 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Jul-92 23:35:17 Sb: #15886-printf problem Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Thanks Mark. I already tried the obvious stuff like moving code around. No help. I even used debug to monitor things and discovered that the call to sprint() is being set up properly. Even checked to verify that the register pointing to the format specifier (D1) actually pointed to the correct data. It did. I think that a wild pointer might be the problem, but can't figure out things. If the pointer is corrupting the program (including sprintf()) then the crc of the program should change. It doesn't. So, I suppose it could be mucking up a static buffer used by sprintf() but that is pretty hard to track down... Be nice to have source for the MW library. Oh well, I'll probably find another nasty bug and trace this to it! For others reading--any suggestions are appreciated! #: 15879 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jul-92 18:10:16 Sb: #SCF Buffer size Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Could someone refresh my tired gray cells? How de? one change the input & output buffer sizes for the serial ports on the mm/1? I thought I'd do it quickly (of course this was at 3am) via xmode. But I don't believe the size is contained in the descriptor. Annoying thing is that there have been some messages fly by in the past--and I choose to ignore them... Thanks. There is 1 Reply. #: 15883 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jul-92 21:37:01 Sb: #15879-#SCF Buffer size Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) You have to use the moded utility (I keep forgetting its there!) and make sure that you have the right moded.fields file in /DD/SYS. This only works on files, though. Somebody needs to hack on xmode to do this real time....hint...hint :-) Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 15896 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Jul-92 23:35:06 Sb: #15883-SCF Buffer size Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, I tried moded and thought that I had the correct file. Of course, I didn't. Works fine now that I have the right file! Thanks. (So, when are you going to pos the new xmode .) #: 15880 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 12-Jul-92 19:51:12 Sb: #pcdos Fm: Denise Tomlinson 71021,3274 To: bob santy I downloaded a os9 file to my pc because I have only one modem I thought i could transfer it to coco with your transfer program called pcdos. I forgot it was in binary instead of ascii, and it also was an "arc" file. It won't unarc on an os9 disk. Could I hook a null modem cable between the bit banger of the coco and the com2 port of my pc and transfer the file? I have a os9 terminal program and also one for the pc? What pins on the two computers would I use? I am fairly adept at making things for the coco with a soldering iron! Would this work? I believe the file as it sits in my pc harddrive is an exact copy of the one here that I downloaded I evidently am loosing data with the "pcdos" program because it's binary instead of ascii text. Thanks, Denise There is 1 Reply. #: 15882 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 12-Jul-92 21:36:45 Sb: #15880-pcdos Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Denise Tomlinson 71021,3274 Denise, For binary files, make sure to use the -raw option of pcdos, otherwise pcdos assumes its an ascii file. Check out the file SERIAL.TXT for some good explanations and examples of hooking up different computers and equipment to the various serial ports of the CoCo. I can't remember which library its in, but try this command in any of the libraries: bro all serial.txt Bill #: 15887 S1/General Interest 13-Jul-92 11:31:51 Sb: #14865-New AR Developments Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 These questions, as posed in the Delphi poll, on AR's enhancements received several replies. However, not all persons interested AR enhancements subscribe to the Delphi services. This is a response from a local BBS users here in the Dallas, Tx area. The comments are his not mine. Lee ----------------------------------------------------- WHAT SHOULD THE DEFAULT COMPRESSION BE? Carl Kreider is thinking of updating AR. He would like to know what the users want for the default compression though. Do you want the default to remain at 11 bits so that it remaini compatible with OS-9 Level I, or do you feel the default compression should be 12 bit so that binary files can be compressed. I believe he is planning on adding the 12 bit code, but wants to know what you want the default compression toggle to do. Also, if you leave a comment, please mention whether you would like the attributes saved with the file, and any other features you would like added, changed, or removed. The results will be given to Carl on CIS. 10-Jul-92 05:00pm Subject: Re: AR Developments... My comments to Mr. Krieder: I like the unsanctioned version of AR1.5b. It's flawless (so far). I like the default to 12 bits, but I wouldn't be bothered by the 11 bit default if that were the way it would go. Automatically sensing if a compression was good or not (i.e. compress all files, check to see if the result was larger, if so: rewrite) is 100% necessary in my opinion. I have compressed MANY MANY binaries using AR1.5b with very few not compressing. And even so, the ones that didn't compress well wene "stored" without a noticably lengthy loss in time. Time during compression does not matter half as much as time during extraction anyway! ATTRIBUTES ARE 100% necessary!!!! Don't even think about not puating it in...(please...) Daniel Hauck #: 15888 S1/General Interest 13-Jul-92 14:30:21 Sb: Programmer Wanted Fm: Miguel Payet 70702,731 To: all A company in Peru is looking for a programmer to accomplish the following job: 1. Conversion of OS-9 propietary format graphic files to industry-standard PCX format. 2. Transfer of converted files from OS-9 CAD system to Novell NetWare file server 3. Archiving and deletion of unneeded CAD files. 4. Scheduling and automatic operations of the above after normal business hours. If you are interested, please respond by email to 70702,731 for more information. Regards, Miguel #: 15895 S15/Hot Topics 13-Jul-92 23:00:05 Sb: #6309??? Fm: DOUG 72667,1433 To: all Hey all you gurus... I've been off the circuit for a while. What's with this 6309? Data Sheets available? Supply sources??? Tell me more.... Doug 72667,1433 There is 1 Reply. #: 15902 S15/Hot Topics 14-Jul-92 00:16:21 Sb: #15895-6309??? Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: DOUG 72667,1433 Doug, Check out 6309.TXT in LIB 1, which explains what the 6309 is all about. There are some other related files, try the following command in any of the data libraries: bro all /key:6309 Bill #: 15903 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Jul-92 00:32:49 Sb: Atari? Windows? Fm: Mark Sours 70372,1370 To: Kevin Darling Kevin, Are you going to port your windows routines to the Atari? If so when can we expect it? Last I read you were, has that changed.. I got off the mainframes and onto sun sparcs and I hate to come home to the windowless atari... Later #: 15904 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Jul-92 02:48:03 Sb: #playm on MM/1 Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: all Hi all... Can I use playm on my MM/1 with I/O board and 1 Meg? I've tried, but get only garbage sound or no sound at all. I've seen the file with the modifications, but I'm real hesitant about cutting anything on the board except as a last resort. It's much easier to remove it than to put it back ya know... There is 1 Reply. #: 15910 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Jul-92 01:22:56 Sb: #15904-playm on MM/1 Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Hi all... Never mind the message I'm replying to. After buying 2 more megs of memory and installing it, everything works as advertised. Tomorrow night I'll have a Fujitsu 105 Meg hard drive up and running - can't wait. Bought a Logitech Mouseman - works fine (it's MicroSoft compatible, so use the .ms drivers). My MM/1 is finally starting to act like a real computer! Press !> #: 15933 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Jul-92 18:18:36 Sb: #Paul Ward Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: All Has anyone heard anything from Paul Ward? I've left him messages on the answering machine in Washington twice in the last week. I also left him two messages on the Ocean Beach BBS. The first was left on June 26th and has been marked as received. The second was left on July 8th and hasn't been received yet. I know his office was closed July 6th thru July 10th. His answering machine still had the message from July 13th at 11:00 A.M. today. Thanks for any information any of you can give e. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 15935 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Jul-92 23:26:50 Sb: #15933-#Paul Ward Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 Hi Ernie... Did ya ever get the impression that Paul sometimes gets sick of the business and hides? It's probably not like that at all, but sometimes he seems awfully hard to get ahold of. I manage a business myself - I have been known to turn off the phone sometimes (for a short while) just to get a break from the bullsh**, ya know ! There is 1 Reply. #: 15936 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Jul-92 03:38:18 Sb: #15935-Paul Ward Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 "I manage a business myself - I have been known to turn off the phone sometimes (for a short while) just to get a break from the bullsh**, ya know !" Yah, like right now my brain has gone fuzzy, so I just have to take a break from answering questions and the phone (altho I've saved all the questions to answer in a few days -- sorry for delays). Interestingly, a similar topic has been coming up in other forums lately (about one-person businesses needing to get away or just plain work, for that matter). For example, in an Amiga group recently: "I started out with one phone that stayed busy much of the time, I now have three lines that again are busy so much of the time that not much else seems to get done. A small one to two person company that has a shipping product can spend so much time on the phone with support calls that there isn't any time left for upgrades or new developments. At some point a decision has to be made, is the effort put into answering calls as they come in, or is the time spent developing new products." #: 15943 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Jul-92 19:00:18 Sb: #15935-#Paul Ward Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Sometimes it does seem as if he's hiding. Actually he's called me several times since I got my I/O board back in January. Maybe he'll be back in the office on Monday. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 15947 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jul-92 01:51:31 Sb: #15943-#Paul Ward Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) Hi Ernie... Actually, I've been accused of the same thing (hiding). My phone was turned on, but somehow he just never called at the right times (when the phone wasn't busy, cell overloaded, or I was working where I couldn't leave the phone on - it's in the truck, and honks the horn when it rings). It can be tough to get anything done if you answer every single call right when they come in... There is 1 Reply. #: 15948 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jul-92 06:52:45 Sb: #15947-Paul Ward Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) I know. I get lots of calls at work, most of them seem to come in when I'm not in my office. I try to return them but there are always a few that get lost. Ernie. #: 15946 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jul-92 01:47:30 Sb: #15936-Paul Ward Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kev... Yeah, aint it the truth! There are times when I could just yank that damn cellular out of the truck and fire it in the nearest dumpster. Ya can't live with em and ya can't live without em... #: 15959 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jul-92 20:35:59 Sb: #F$Rename Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all I just read (in The Rainbow of all places) that Microware have posted an F$Rename setstt for 68K. All I can say is that it's about time. Pity, though, that this has not appeared here in this forum, or even in the MW forum (which, alas, seems to be highly neglected by MW). Will some kind soul be posting the information and/or patch here someday? It'll be interesting to see if folks start to use this instead of 'rename' and what kinds of incompatibility problems this creates.... There is 1 Reply. #: 15970 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jul-92 22:46:04 Sb: #15959-#F$Rename Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob - I haven't seen an F$/I$Rename posted anywhere. There *was* an example posted on usenet for doing an SS.Rename across a net tho, I believe. I have it around here somewhere. I do know they plan to add I$Rename at some time, tho, so maybe I just haven't seen whatever Rainbow talked about. (?) kev There are 2 Replies. #: 15986 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Jul-92 23:24:08 Sb: #15970-F$Rename Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Well, maybe the Rainbow article is talking about the net stuff? Don't know. It was a thingie in there new-delphi-stuff column. Can't find it right now, but I think it was an article posted by someone commenting on the MW posting to usenet. Any idea why it's taken them so long to add I$Rename (I noticed that I refered to it as F$.. of course that don't make sense...). #: 16035 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Jul-92 17:21:39 Sb: #15970-#F$Rename Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Well, maybe the Rainbow article is talking about the net stuff? Don't know. It was a thingie in there new-delphi-stuff column. Can't find it right now, but I think it was an article posted by someone commenting on the MW posting to usenet. Any idea why it's taken them so long to add I$Rename (I noticed that I refered to it as F$.. of course that don't make sense...). There is 1 Reply. #: 16043 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jul-92 01:16:54 Sb: #16035-F$Rename Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I think that adding I$Rename would wait for a radical change (v 3.0 or something). What they also need to change would be I$Read/write/etc... which uses the d1 register for both length and error code return (oops :-). #: 15960 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jul-92 21:06:19 Sb: #15873-#tc70 Kwindows Fm: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 To: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 got many features of kwindows working but....upline command does not work. from basic I use print chr$(9); .. It works on coco. Is there a fix? Can I get around this? Have you got the new version of tc70 Kwindows (I am running the preliminary tc70 kwindows). I have switched back to using vt70 instead of kwindows since I cant use my software. which requires an upline code! There is 1 Reply. #: 16002 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Jul-92 00:06:07 Sb: #15960-tc70 Kwindows Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 For upline try the VT-100 codes 1b 5b 41 - Mike - #: 15996 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Jul-92 22:12:53 Sb: #15576-#MM/1 Mouse Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Thanks for your message from the middle of last month. I was on vacation for about two weeks. Now that you have your I/O board it is time for you to get your MIDI board. You may want to see if Microware will cut you a deal on the new MIDI package so you can port it to the MM/1. Should be fairly easy. I am sure I can get Kevin Pease to provide some help on that. Best, Paul IMS There is 1 Reply. #: 15997 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jul-92 01:29:07 Sb: #15996-MM/1 Mouse Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Hi Paul... What MIDI package does MicroWare have? Never heard of it. I've been playing with Mike Knudsen's 'recplays' program. I've tried recording several things here (drum machine gives best (highest) levels) at varying sample rates. Having very poor results - seems I have the same problem I've heard of other people having. Namely, a LOT of noise in the samples! Sounds like bacon frying - happens at all volume levels and at all sample rates. Anything I can do without having to cut things in my MM/1? I'd really like to avoid that if possible. #: 16003 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Jul-92 02:08:07 Sb: #.fli help Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Is there any way to fix a .fli file that comes up with sync errors ? I've got a couple I just downloaded but they both come up with this sync error problem. I'd hate to have that downloading time wasted. Larry There is 1 Reply. #: 16044 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jul-92 04:30:08 Sb: #16003-#.fli help Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Hmmmmm... What do you mean by a sync error? Can Kevs flicker util display 'em? - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16048 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jul-92 16:43:21 Sb: #16044-#.fli help Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I was getting error messages like: Unknown Frame Signature 0x01F1 at 0x0000BADE in frame 69 Skipping Frame of -100663250 bytes I got your fli.txt & newfli.txt files, and using the info in them and Ded I tried to repair the files. The 4 byte frame size in front of FAF1 was wrong. I recalculated the frame size,( it was off by 1 byte), and put the new value in frame size. That fixed that frame but I got the sync error in frame 70. So I recalculated that one and fixed it, but then the next one was off, and so on. That file must have taken a pretty good noise hit while I was downloading. There is 1 Reply. #: 16056 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jul-92 00:54:03 Sb: #16048-#.fli help Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) What's the name of the file? Is it here on CIS? If so let me know where it is and I'll check the file out. Just might be a problem with AAPlay. Thanks, - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16066 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jul-92 01:21:05 Sb: #16056-#.fli help Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, The file is ok, it was MSK.ZIP in the Asoft library. I redownloaded it and it is ok. larry There is 1 Reply. #: 16067 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jul-92 02:43:28 Sb: #16066-.fli help Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Glad to hear it was just a bad D/L. Thanks for letting me know, - Mike - #: 16041 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Jul-92 21:28:53 Sb: Saving Graphics To Disk Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427 To: ALL Does anone know how you go about saving graphics on the MM/1 to disk? I have tried to port some C code using CGFX.L from CoCo 3 OS9 to OSK on the MM/1 without any luck - all of the code works except for saving buffers to disk. Is there something different? There is no _ss_mgpb command but there is a _gs_mgpb command. Are they the same? I tried both without any decent results. Any help would be most appreciated! Bert Schneider #: 16042 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jul-92 00:27:26 Sb: #Lost of root directory Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: all How would one go about recreating the root directory, it was trashed. All data appears to be fine. The root only contain subdirectories. I really need to patch this guy(hard drive) up. Any and all info... There are 2 Replies. #: 16049 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jul-92 21:51:42 Sb: #16042-Lost of root directory Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Stephen - Not a feat for the faint hearted, I assure you. Number 1: You MUST be (or become) familiar with OS9 disk structure. LSN0 defines the disk's parameters, dates, and layout of the bitmap, which are the sectors that follow. Typically, an os9 disk (ANY type) is of the structure: Sector 0 - LSN0 (data about the disk) Sector 1-n - Bit map (bit =1 means cluster is in use; 0 = free) Sector N+1 - FD sector of root directory Sector N+2 - N+2+SAS - Initial root directory. SAS is the segment allocation size, and is the minimum amount the disk/file manager will allocate. _Usually_, on hard disks this is 32 sectors. Is this enough to get you started? Pete #: 16054 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jul-92 23:45:57 Sb: #16042-Lost of root directory Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) I had a similar crash awhile ago. This really makes you start keeping backups current! What I did was use ded to suck the data off the HD onto floppies. Very tedious, but I did get most of the important stuff. BTW, using ded on a HD is frustrating--ded thinks sectors are 256 bytes long, while on the HD they are 512. So you constantly have to multiply by 2 to get the correct "sector" when looking for FDs, etc. #: 16050 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jul-92 21:52:51 Sb: #Vegas? Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike - Marsha's starting to get that old Vegas twitch again.... you free for dinner (grin)? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 16055 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jul-92 00:52:09 Sb: #16050-#Vegas? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Certainly, Kim would be glad to meet ya both. :) Jes say when... - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16061 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jul-92 08:56:15 Sb: #16055-Vegas? Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) I think I met Kim once already... it was just after the baby was born. Might be in the next week or so. Pete #: 16052 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jul-92 23:45:38 Sb: #C strangeness Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all I'm writing a bit of C code using data modules and have found an interesting situation. Most of the module functions are declared as returning a pointer to a structure of type mod_exec. Further, if these functions fail, they return a -1. Now things get interesting. The compiler correctly flags statements like: if((foo=modlink(woof,type))==-1)... as an illegal pointer/integer combination. This makes sense since pointers are by their nature unsigned. So, what casts can one use to satisfy the compiler and ensure that the proper type conversions are being done? There is 1 Reply. #: 16060 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jul-92 08:54:42 Sb: #16052-#C strangeness Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob - You just LIE to it (grin): if((foo = modlink(woof,type)) == (struct mod_exec*)-1) ... Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 16062 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jul-92 18:29:04 Sb: #16060-C strangeness Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) OR: if ((long int)(foo = modlink(woof,type))) == -1) ... can also be used. Robert #: 16068 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jul-92 08:39:28 Sb: See you soon(er) Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike - We'll be flying in Saturday evening about 8:30, and will be leaving around the same time Monday night. Perhaps, if yout schedule isn't already premapped, dinner Sunday afternoon/eve? We couldn't get in at your place (durn!), and ended up at the Imperial Palace (hope it's not too funky over there). Hope we can work this out... Pete Press !> #: 16213 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Aug-92 04:25:19 Sb: #16184-#I$Seek on MM/1 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Are you sure you're seeking back? (Or have you found a bug in your program since you posted your message?) You should be able to draw directly to the screen memory; of course you'll have to set the dots into nybbles (for 16-color) or bytes (for 256-color). kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 16226 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Aug-92 23:05:10 Sb: #16213-#I$Seek on MM/1 Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kev... The I$Seek thing has gotta be a bug, but I can't find it! I'll look some more - if I can't find it, I'll send ya a code frag and maybe you'll spot it. What I meant by writing to the screen-mem directly was this: I used to shoot ascii codes directly to screen mem and the CoCo would turn it into text. Course you had to write every other byte and just hit the in-between ones for attributes. Can I do this on the MM/1? Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 There is 1 Reply. #: 16230 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Aug-92 09:10:04 Sb: #16226-#I$Seek on MM/1 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Nope. The CoCo has that ROM-character mode; the MM/1 (and ST and Amiga and a lot of others) just have graphics modes where the characters have to be explicitly drawn. With extra circuitry a ROM text mode could be added, but there's no plans for it, as far as I know. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16235 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Aug-92 12:47:59 Sb: #16230-#I$Seek on MM/1 Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin... You think I could draw chars to screen faster than the OS, or windowing system, or whoever's doing it now? Probably that stuff is pretty fast already, right? I guess I may have to live with it - it's not really bad... There is 1 Reply. #: 16237 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Aug-92 22:09:41 Sb: #16235-#I$Seek on MM/1 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Sure, there's no doubt that you could draw faster than going through the system. You probably couldn't scroll much faster though. And of course it limits where the program can be used. For example, I'd bet that EthaGUI would run on the ST, but it starts up with a direct-access fancy title which unfortunately (because ST screens use less memory) writes all over system structures and blows up. Too bad. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16239 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Aug-92 23:16:36 Sb: #16237-#I$Seek on MM/1 Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kev... Maybe I'll play with that later, after I've got the rest of the program solid. I don't need to scroll - I only have to update 2 sections of screen fast. You've seen Snap (now being sold as KwikZap by Gale Force Enterprises), right? I just have to update the hex and ascii sections. The rest can be 'legal' as speed is not necessary there. Hey remember my problem with I$Seek? Never mind - I'm embarrassed that I didn't catch it before. I left the prog alone for a few days, came back to it tonight and spotted the error right away - I was only moving a byte into d0 for the path number. I$Seek wants a word of course. Works fine now! Funny how it doesn't seek worth a damn when it's doing it in the wrong place, huh? There is 1 Reply. #: 16240 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Aug-92 00:50:25 Sb: #16239-I$Seek on MM/1 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Heh. I do that all the time (moving a byte instead of a word or long, etc). Can be a bear to catch, especially if most of the time the leftover bits happen to work out! #: 16214 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Aug-92 04:26:09 Sb: #16188-#Get/SetStt's Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Hi Glen, There's a bunch more statcalls, but most are vestigal drawing calls and will go away soon. There's also a fancy set for making screen effects, which I need to restore to operation soon (if you saw the early MM/1 demos with sliding screens and blinds effects, etc, those were the ones). Actually tho, I'm trying to cut back the number of statcalls to a bare minimum. Sooner or later, the only ones left should be those which work over a net, or those which can only be used locally anyway (like get screen address :-) Re: traps. $00002400 is just where the global variables are on the MM/1. The $4AFC at the beginning of those is meaningless as far as I can tell... perhaps left over from being able to save out the globals as a data module long ago, or something. Just keep tracing along and you should run into the kernel module. best - kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 16227 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Aug-92 23:09:27 Sb: #16214-Get/SetStt's Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin... I haven't seen those demos - tried some demo scripts I got off Oceanside BBS, but they wouldn't work with my setup (windio 38). Thanks for the hint. One of these days I'll dig into it again - much too hung over today to think about it. Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 #: 16215 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Aug-92 04:26:34 Sb: #16207-#MM/1 _ss_play Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Stephen, Can you give a short example of your play code? (Mike H will have to look at it since you're using his C lib, I guess) Record has to use colored memory because the main memory DMA write cycle is over with before the A/D converter puts data on the bus. Ie: you just get junk. The colored memory is the slower video memory instead. best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16216 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Aug-92 06:15:33 Sb: #16215-MM/1 _ss_play Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, I believed so on the memory.... Now for the $20,000 question... what about recording more auido than available memory in video memory. I'm sure it can be done... I was under the impression that the windowing system had calls for doing audio I/O? Or at least something to that extent was in the tech. manual. What follows is a shorten version of the test program: #include #include main() { char *sdata; /* sound data path */ int spath; /* file */ int path=1; /* STDOUT */ int length; /* length of sound data/file */ int freq; /* ????? do what with ????? */ spath=open("bass2.iff",0x01); length=_gs_size(spath); sdata = (char *) _srqmem(length); read(spath,sdata,length); close(spath); _ss_play(path,sdata,length,freq/*???*/,SND_NOSIG,NULL); getchar(); _srtmem(length,sdata); } I just typed it in from memory less the checks of returned values, like _srqmem(). The first try use malloc(), but no luck. I tried setting freq to different values. I got varied results like crashing, killing further audio play request, locking up the window... I'm using wind38... (whats in the works?) have 3megs... Need any other information? #: 16220 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Aug-92 10:59:29 Sb: sh Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Carl, Seems to me I've heard you were fixing up the TOPS sh and are the official keeper of the sources. Is there a cleaned up version available somewhere? Steve #: 16229 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Aug-92 02:16:15 Sb: Cipher 540GT Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: all Anybody have the specs. on a Cipher 540GT SCSI tape drive? I have two and either want to use them for something or give them a home. #: 16231 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Aug-92 09:11:08 Sb: #_ss_play() Human err... Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: 1 I should kick myself REAL hard... if FREQ is specifed correctly _ss_play work just dandy! I use 40 instead of 40,000... real slow but... What was I thinking? [smile] %-) Obviously about something else... like proofing ones work you fill in he gaps. There is 1 Reply. #: 16238 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Aug-92 22:13:35 Sb: #16231-_ss_play() Human err... Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Yah, you specify frequency in Hz. I think the range is about 3Khz to 40Khz. There seems to be a bug where if you pick a too high freq (or too low?) then snddrv crashes tho . No biggie, just be aware :-) Snddrv will look up the closest timer frequency to the one you pass (usually the timer can get with a few tens of Hz) that can be used on the hardware. Ugh, terrible sentence. #: 16253 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Aug-92 01:48:05 Sb: #more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, I hav'nt bugged you for awhile, so..... I was wondering about the status of the TC-70 port. Is it soup yet ?? I've got alot more questions ;) Has anything been decided or is someone working on an ssplay function for the MM/1, similar to the CoCo3 ssplay. Will there be one, or is there a hardware sound generator in the works ? Are there any drivers, or firm rules, or guide lines for using the joystick ports in Kwindows on the MM/1 ? How is the video digitizer project going ? I think I'm finally getting a handle on C, been writing little filters and such, just finished a short one that simulates the Dir -e command. It may not sound like much, but its a milestone for me. This C is a whole different language ;). I struggled with trying to use GETIME for about a week, couldn't find any examples of how to call and use it, but I finally figured out how to setup the pointer to the structure that it needs. I just can't get over the fact that there are no C programs here with source, that access the time functions. I just started trying to write something a little more useful, when I was brought up short. There is no DRAW function in cgfx.l, like the DRAW function in Basic09. Is there any plans on adding a Basic09 type DRAW function to cgfx.l ? Larry There is 1 Reply. #: 16256 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Aug-92 22:48:31 Sb: #16253-#more ?? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Hi Larry, Sounds like your on your way with C now. Coding is the only way I know of the really makes it 'sink in'. LHa is posted with source, along with ARC. Both use the time functions. What exactly does the DRAW function of Basic09 do? I'll try to point you in the right direction. - Mike - There are 2 Replies. #: 16259 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Aug-92 00:16:06 Sb: #16256-#more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Thanks for the tip on the source for LHa & ARC, I didn't even think of those. I guess I was thinking of short little demo type programs. The Draw function I was thinking of is like the one in Basic & Basic09, where you would send a string of arguments like, "N5,SE10,W2", which would be converted to moe North 5 pixels, South East 10 pixels, West 2 pixels. The pixels would be turned on for those locations unless a "BM", blank move is made, and so on. I just wondered about this when I started trying to draw some objects, using the SetDPtr & Line functions and came to the conclusion that there must be a better way. I'll play around with it and see if I can come up with some kind of function that simulates the DRAW function. Larry There is 1 Reply. #: 16262 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Aug-92 02:21:20 Sb: #16259-#more ?? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Ahhh, You can use SetDPtr() to the initial location you want. The LineM() to draw to the new location and move the draw pointer to the new coordinates. For you relative Blank moves, use RSetDPtr(). It's a relative SetDPtr function. If the lines your drawing are relative lines, use RLineM() to also move the DP to the new position. Hope this is what you had in mind, - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16265 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Aug-92 13:22:31 Sb: #16262-more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 Mike, I guess I'm just spoiled by Basic09. The functions,Bar, Box, Ellipse, and Line would use the current draw pointer position if 2 arguments were given or it would ignore the current draw position if 4 arguments were given. This would eliminate alot of SetDPtr calls. On another subject, I have been printing out all these header files, and looking at IFF.h and I'm supprised, there has been alot of work put in there. What I was wondering was, I see mention of picture files with sound included, is there such a thing ? Will AAPLAY play them ? What extension would these type of files have ? Larry #: 16260 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Aug-92 00:28:16 Sb: #16256-more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, While I have you here, maybe you can answer a question for me. Does the Line() function only work with 2 arguments(besides PATH), or does it accept 4 arguments. Example: Line(path,100,100,300,100); This would draw a horizontal line 200 pixels long, starting at 100,100 and moving to 300,100. or are you limited too: SetDPtr(path,100); oops, let me start over ;) SetDPTR(path,100,100); Line(path,300,100); This is the form described in the cgfx doc files. Larry #: 16257 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Aug-92 04:14:20 Sb: #RISC 88000 Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all Does anyone know about the performance numbers on the Motorola RISC 88000. How does it compare to the R6000 by MIPS or any other RISC chip on the market. There is 1 Reply. #: 16261 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Aug-92 17:25:09 Sb: #16257-RISC 88000 Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Hello Scott Howell Which 88000 are you asking for : 88100 or 88110 ?? The 88100 is running about 23MIPS @ 25MHz and the 88110 is about 4 times faster. regards ole@danelec.dk #: 16274 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Aug-92 21:10:37 Sb: #High Speed Modems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I got the 9600 baud modem the other day...and I have it working. Well, sort of. I manage to logon with a CONNECT/V42 at 9600 baud. However, I've had some funny problems.... 1. The other night I kept getting the first 4 lines of one message printed over and over again. Never was able to read everything. 2. Earlier today CIS would just stop. If I hit CTRL-P I would get CONNECT/V42 echoed to my screen. However, a CTRL-C did get the 'interupt' menu and life went on. I think I have some param. settings not quite correct. What are you using for buffering, and flow control setting on the modem and on your computer. I may have an additional problem since I don't have a /t3 yet so I have to use /t0. I did 'dl a file the other night at 9600 and it sure did fly.... Once all works this should save me a few $$ since I not only have to consider the CIS charges, but also toll charges. So on the short calls, even if CIS does charge more I should save in my phone bill. Of course, it never works out that way...but we can dream and attempt to justify things! There is 1 Reply. #: 16275 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Aug-92 22:09:46 Sb: #16274-#High Speed Modems Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I'm running on /t3 ... but /t0 should do fine as well. I've jumpped my buffers up to 2K and this has served well for the last several months. Those 4 lines repeating is a sure sign of buffer overflow. I'm also using hardware flow control ... not sure if /t0 supports this (no tech manual handy) but try to enable it with xmode type 80. Note no Hex $ sign. This seems to be a fluke with the xmode command. Other than that, I've stuck with the modem default parameters. If you need to cover those one by one, I'd be happy to help. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 16302 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Aug-92 21:55:18 Sb: #16275-#High Speed Modems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I've decided that the modem is defective. I just can't get it to the connect point--let alone data errors, etc. So, I talked to the supplier and I'm getting a replacement. Now, if the new one doesn't work either--I'm in big trouble! There is 1 Reply. #: 16307 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Aug-92 05:25:27 Sb: #16302-#High Speed Modems Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, you said that you set the buffer size on the port. How is that done exactly?? There is 1 Reply. #: 16322 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-92 20:23:40 Sb: #16307-#High Speed Modems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott, to change the buffer sizes just use moded. Make sure you have the updated moded.fields file from the update disk. There is 1 Reply. #: 16324 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-92 21:54:16 Sb: #16322-#High Speed Modems Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) update disk for the MM/1 or the 2.4 upgrade disk??? There is 1 Reply. #: 16338 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-92 21:39:21 Sb: #16324-High Speed Modems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Not sure where the updated moded.fields is. I got it from the archive posted here. I suspect that it should be on the mm/1 update disk--but being a developer, for some reason I've never figured out, I don't receive things like update disks...so I really don't know. My moded.fields file is 63002 bytes long...if that helps. #: 16277 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Aug-92 00:15:34 Sb: #16265-#more ?? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) I've heard of 'em too. One type is called .GL files. At the moment, we don't have a player for them. I have some Xwindows Unix code that does, but have not had the chance to port it yet. I've also heard mention of Animator files that can play sound too. Haven't run into any tho... IFF.H was fun to put together. It just kept growing when I'd run into a new chunk in an IFF file. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16279 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Aug-92 01:51:47 Sb: #16277-#more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I was just wondering about those animation/sound files. I guess I just feel out of touch with whats going on. I'm still hammering away with this C. Trying to get the hang of checking signals, waiting for key presses and so on. Any release date yet for PAINT ? Don't worry about putting everything in this version, leave a few things for PAINT II . ;) larry There is 1 Reply. #: 16295 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Aug-92 14:25:03 Sb: #16279-#more ?? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Yeah, I'm trying to get what I have doc'd by the Atlanta fest. Keep up the coding in C. If you have any questions, I'll be happy to try and iron 'em out. There is 1 Reply. #: 16306 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Aug-92 01:49:27 Sb: #16295-#more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, You shouldn't leave yourself open like that, I have a lot of questions ;-) Here is one I have been wondering about, has there been any standards set on palette register numbers for forground & background ? I got sidetracked, and thought I would write a routine that displays palette values and colors. The cgfx docs says to use a char *paldata pointer, should this have been unsigned char *paldata. Using just char I get negative numbers unstead of positive 0-255. Is there any info available on what the default palette RGB byte values are. This routine is outputting the values for the palette registers, but I have no idea if the numbers I get from it are the correct values. larry There are 2 Replies. #: 16316 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-92 02:54:41 Sb: #16306-#more ?? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) The stock bootup colors on the MM/1 is the same as the TC/70. You can tell what the palette values are from the program in the next message. Compile it using -l=/dd/lib/cgfx.l I guess it should read unsigned char *paldata in the docs. I'm so used to the coco not having an unsigned char and in using hex when it comes to color and bitmaps that I never thought about it. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16326 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-92 03:17:10 Sb: #16316-#more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I'll try that program out. I thought that I would be smart and since I wasn't sure what thedefault palette values were, I thought why not try writing some values to a register and then see if I get the same thing out. At the time it sounded too easy. Now I have another puzzler thats throwing me. I first use DefColr() to set every thing to the defaults, then I use Palette(), sending it path, register number, and three integers values for the colors. The puzzler is that when I read back the registers, the RGB values I sent are put in the correct register just fine, but the 2 next palette registers are zero'ed out. Is there a problem with the Palette() function, or is there something I'm overlooking ? puzzeled in Waterford larry There are 2 Replies. #: 16329 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-92 23:41:54 Sb: #16326-#more ?? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Geez, I dunno. KEVIN!!! :) Really, I haven't experienced that before. What edition of WindIO you running? - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16332 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-92 12:19:36 Sb: #16329-more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I'm currently using edition 42. #: 16330 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-92 00:37:35 Sb: #16326-#more ?? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Larry, Hmm. Which type of screen? 16 or 256 color? It might be related to the fact that on 16-color screens, the palette numbers actually have to be mapped all over the place (not just the first 16). I'll look. Also - have a short test program? thanks! - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16333 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-92 12:25:53 Sb: #16330-more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, I'll put the source up here, its not short, but not too long. The problem crops up when using the Palette() function. It appears to overwrite more registers than just the one. Then again I could be totally screwing it up with my novice knowledge of C ;-) larry #: 16317 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-92 02:54:53 Sb: #16306-more ?? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) /* showpal.c - show current screen palette values */ #include /* for printf */ #define STDOUT 1 main() { char paldata[768]; int num_colors; int x; num_colors = colors_available(STDOUT); _gs_palette(STDOUT,0,paldata,num_colors); Clear(STDOUT); for (x = 0; x < num_colors * 3; x += 3) printf("Color %03d - RED 0x%02X, GRN 0x%02X, BLU 0x%02X\n", \ x / 3,paldata[x] & 0xff, paldata[x+1] & 0xff, paldata[x+2] & 0xff); } colors_available(path) int path; { int fore, orig, colors; SetDPtr(path,0,0); /* get the original pixel color */ orig = _gs_point(path,0,0); /* get the current foreground/drawing color */ Point(path); fore = _gs_point(path,0,0); /* Set color to FF/255 */ FColor(path,0xff); Point(path); /* Find out max color per pixel */ colors = _gs_point(path,0,0); /* Restore the pixel at 0,0 */ FColor(path,orig); Point(path); /* Reset the foreground color */ FColor(path,fore); return(colors + 1); } - Mike - #: 16287 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Aug-92 15:30:01 Sb: #16253-#more ?? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Larry, Almost soup, yes! I spent some time last week rewriting the TC70 keyboard driver so that it actually returned more than just a few keys . Looking pretty good. Now I just have to make sure the mouse driver still works. BTW, I'll probably also include the 68070 serial port NFM network driver... don't you also have both a TC70 and an MM/1? It's not fast (19.2Kbaud), but it can be useful. Yah, people have been after me to include a Tone command. Is that what you meant? I've kinda half-finished that part (been working on font support lately instead... I can directly use Amiga font files now :-). Man, I gotta practice a lot of C one of these days, too. I envy your efforts! best - kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 16290 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Aug-92 01:24:09 Sb: #16287-more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, Yes, that TONE command is what I meant. How are Amiga fonts setup ? Are they 8x8 or 8x6 ? How much of a rewrite was it to be able to use them ? I'm still finding out how little I know of C, for instance I just ran into a brick wall in trying to use the CurXY function. I have a little routine that is supposed to be printing some numbers using CurXY, while in a FOR loop. But for some reason nothing is printed while the program is inside the loop, then when the program exits the loop, all the numbers are printed on one line. Its like the print commands are being put in a buffer instead of going to the screen. Then when the program exits they are all spit out. I'm going to try putting a \n in the PRINTF and see if that fixes it. As you can see, I'm still stumbling ;) larry #: 16283 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Aug-92 04:44:28 Sb: #VME Hardware Fm: Liz Cowell 100013,1465 To: ALL Can anyone recommend a good VME based hardware platform + scheduler (OS/9 or similar) for developing a realtime control system ? Any suggestions welcome, Thanks, Liz There is 1 Reply. #: 16289 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Aug-92 22:19:22 Sb: #16283-VME Hardware Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Liz Cowell 100013,1465 (X) I use VMEBus and OS-9 for real-time stuff. Have tried several mfgrs by now. There are lots of possible choices, for the different approaches ... philosophies ... whatever. Would prefer to talk more privately regarding possible recommendations or experiences. So mail to CIS mail or Internet tjmartin@anl.gov. #: 16285 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Aug-92 15:29:05 Sb: #15903-Atari? Windows? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mark Sours 70372,1370 Hi Mark, Gee, am I behind in my replies or what? Ouch. Yes, I'm still trying to fix up the ST port so that it'll work on other machines (I dunno why it works here and not on others - sigh). I'm also working with others to make sure MM/1 and TC70 apps will work pretty much the same on the ST. We're slowly figuring some of that out. Shouldn't be too long before I can get it out. Keep after me. Things have been really busy around here lately, with my brother and father each having operations. best - kevin #: 16286 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Aug-92 15:29:33 Sb: #16216-#MM/1 _ss_play Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Stephen, Yes, you can record (or play) more audio than available memory. The trick is: the sound driver will buffer up to about 4 (maybe more, I've forgotten :-) play/record requests. As soon as one is finished, the next request in line will automagically be started without delay. So what you do is allocate a couple of buffers. Fill one, then start it playing and begin filling the other. Then also immediately request a play for that second buffer (which will be queued up by the driver). This primes your playing "pump". Now you can wait for the first buffer to finish playing before starting to load it up again. Then wait for the second to finish before playing the first. And continue looping from there. To sync the waits, pass a signal value in the parameters. For my quick and dirty demos I just pass an S$Wake signal value... and go to sleep between buffer-fills. The S$Wake signal keeps me in sync (except when the playing goes faster than loading can go - then everything stops between buffers. I should use a fancier method in my play programs). I usually use about 4-16K buffers, I think. Depends on playback frequency. Does any of this make sense? best - kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 16303 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Aug-92 21:55:29 Sb: #16286-#MM/1 _ss_play Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Speaking of play... why is it that sometimes I hear clicks when using hdplay, other times I don't? It seems to happen with the same file, without any other processes hogging cpu time. Hmmm, should be more specific--the clicks appear to be very brief pauses occurring when the disk fetches are being made. There is 1 Reply. #: 16305 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Aug-92 01:35:46 Sb: #16303-#MM/1 _ss_play Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob - I sure don't know yet why sometimes you get clicks during hdplay. It might be related to the DMA bus usage everyone has talked about. The sound DMA channel is a higher priority, so that's no problem. And the sound interrupt is the highest in the system (or is now, I boosted it to 6). So what could be happening is that the interrupt routine isn't being run right away because the disk DMA takes away cpu cycles. Or... perhaps I do something dumb like re-init the audio output to zero on each play. Lemme look. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16321 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-92 20:23:32 Sb: #16305-MM/1 _ss_play Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) I'm not sure about this...but I seem to recall that the clicking occurs after I have stopped the playing of a file with Ctrl-C and then started playing a new file. I'll drag the stereo over and do some tests if you need. Let me know. #: 16293 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Aug-92 10:09:08 Sb: Job Offer Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all +------------------------------------------------------------+ |/| |/| |/| OS9 PROGRAMMER POSITION OPEN |/| |/| |/| |/| C and 68000 assembly programmer with at least 2 years |/| |/| experience with the OS-9 operating system needed |/| |/| immediately. Experience in writing real-time |/| |/| applications is also desired. Send resumes to: |/| |/| |/| |/| P.O. Box 681035 |/| |/| Indianapolis IN 46268 |/| |/| |/| |/| Or: call Scott @ (317) 291-1110 or (317) 328-9285 |/| |/| on M,W,F 9am-5pm (Indiana time) for more info |/| |/| |/| +------------------------------------------------------------+ #: 16310 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Aug-92 09:43:22 Sb: #16173-#MM/1 Mouse Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, We are checking on it. What you might want to do in the meantime is write me a letter to our DC address that describes EXACTLY what your sound setup is. Best, Paul IMS There is 1 Reply. #: 16325 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-92 22:00:39 Sb: #16310-MM/1 Mouse Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Hi Paul... Have you had any other reports of the mouse behavior I described? I'll repeat in case you don't remember: When I power up, the mouse almost always doesn't work until I unplug it and plug it back in (while powered up). Once I've done this, it works perfectly until I power down and back up again. Once in a while it work after a power up, but not usually. The mouse is a Logitech Mouseman (not a cheapy) Model #M-CJ13-9F. I'm using a driver from the sedr0705.ar? upgrade - CRC $6E508C , Edition #6. This is a MicroSoft compatible mouse. I assume you got my messages about the mouse pointer movement stuff? #: 16334 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-92 12:37:49 Sb: source_part 1 Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) /* p_dis4.c */ /* a program to display palette info */ #include #define STDIN 0 #define STDOUT 1 #define STDERR 2 main() { int path = STDOUT; /* stdout */ int x, y; int f_col, b_col; int curx, cury; int numofpals = 1; /* read 1 palette at a time */ int palnum; int clutoffset; unsigned char palbuf[48]; /* this should only need to be 3 */ /* but 3 doesn't work, 6 or more works ? */ /* I should only be getting 3 bytes back */ /* from _gs_palette */ f_col = 15; b_col = 0; x = 168; y = 56; curx = 10; cury = 5; DefColr(path); /* reset all palettes to default */ Palette(path, 10 * 3, 210, 105, 30); /* palette register 10 (*3) */ FColor(path, f_col); BColor(path, b_col); Clear(path); CurXY(path, curx, cury); printf("Palette # R G B \n"); curx = 17; cury = 7; for ( palnum = 0; palnum < 16; palnum++ ) { f_col = palnum; if ( f_col == b_col ) f_col = 15; CurXY(path, curx, cury); FColor(path, f_col); printf("%2d\n", palnum); fbox(path, x, y, palnum, b_col); FColor(path, f_col); clutoffset = palnum * 3; _gs_palette(path, clutoffset, palbuf, numofpals ); CurXY(path, curx + 7, cury); printf("%3d %3d %3d\n", palbuf[0], palbuf[1], palbuf[2] ); y = y + 8; cury = cury + 1; } exit(0); } #: 16335 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-92 12:39:31 Sb: #source_part 2 Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) /* draw and fill a box at location xloc,yloc */ /* if foreground = background put white box around color box */ fbox(path, xloc, yloc, fcol, bcol) int path,xloc,yloc; int fcol,bcol; { int xloc2, yloc2; xloc2 = xloc + 11; yloc2 = yloc + 5; if ( fcol == bcol ) { SetDPtr(path, xloc -1, yloc -1); FColor(path, 15); Box(path, xloc2 +1, yloc2 +1); } SetDPtr(path, xloc, yloc); FColor(path, fcol); Bar(path, xloc2, yloc2); return 0; } There is 1 Reply. #: 16340 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-92 23:57:56 Sb: #16335-#source_part 2 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Larry, I sent you mail about your source, with the corrections. Lemme know if you have any questions about the changes. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16341 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Aug-92 02:02:49 Sb: #16340-source_part 2 Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 Mike, Got the mail and tried it, still no go. I sent some mail back with a little more explanation of what the program is doing. The program in this form doesn't do much, but I have plans on expanding it into something alot more useful, but I can't do anything if I can't get this simple part to work. still puzzled larry #: 16339 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-92 21:39:31 Sb: #New drives Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Does anyone know if the new 2.88 meg 3.5" drives being advertised for the DOS machines will work with the mm/1? Sounds like they just drop into a pc... Are the disks different than the 1.44? From what I understand the number of sectors per track is doubled on these, so there must be a line to toggle to get into the hd mode...or maybe it just senses another hole on the disk??? There are 2 Replies. #: 16342 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Aug-92 09:00:04 Sb: #16339-New drives Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Your theory about another hole on the disk to indicate ED (extended density) mode is correct. The disk media surface is different from that used in the 1.44 media and is currently expensive (remember that it was the same way when 1.44 drives were new). The number of sectors per track (on a PC) is doubled from 18 to 36. These drives will work in a PC but the controller must be able to specifically support the 1000 KB data rate required by the ED drive for the 2.88 media, most PC controllers do not support the 2.88 drives. Dalco (see computer shopper) and other vendors sell PC controller capable of using the 2.88 drives. The lower density media are usable in the 2.88 drives at their lower capacity. MS-DOS V5.0 properly supports the 2.88 drives if the PC floppy controller does. Sooo, if the MM/1 floppy disk controller supports the 1000 kb data rate then the drives should be usable on the MM/1. -J #: 16343 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Aug-92 09:06:45 Sb: #16339-New drives Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) One more thing... They changed the way that the drive reports to the controller what density media is installed in the disk drive. On our custom hardware this limited us to three drives maximum which may or may not be the case on the MM/1. (I've got the drive manuals at work and I'm not even going to try and guess at the changes via memory! Grin!) -J #: 16345 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Aug-92 20:41:40 Sb: Windio for MM/1 Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: 76703,4227 Hi Kevin... Just curious - what's the latest revision of Windio for MM/1? I'm using #38 at the moment. What's new and improved in later version(s)? When do you think you'll be ready to release the latest and greatest version? Do you plan to fix it so we have most or all of our function-keys working? Hope so. I can live without F9 and F10 (we need 2 keys somewhere to change windows), but it seems kinda dumb to have the rest doing nothing. The reason I'm asking is that I'm working on a paint program and would like to have the latest system stuff so I don't have to rewrite too much when you get it solid. I'm also bugging Mike Haaland, because his cgfx.l isn't finished yet either, and my program relies heavily on it. Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 Press !> #: 16346 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Aug-92 22:49:11 Sb: #16343-#New drives Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Thanks for the ED info. Hopefully some MM/1 expert will add the dirty details for the disk controller on this beast. Yes, I noticed the disk prices...guess we'll wait awhile before jumping into this one. Mind you, backups would be nicer... There are 2 Replies. #: 16351 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-92 09:09:37 Sb: #16346-#New drives Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Sorry....the MM/1 disk controller doesn't support those transfer rates. Wish it did. Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 16360 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-92 23:41:15 Sb: #16351-New drives Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Pity about the transfer rates. Oh well, I wasn't planning on buying any disks with $6.00 each pricing anyways. #: 16389 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Sep-92 07:22:36 Sb: #16351-#New drives Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark your reply is not completely true. The floppy controller on produstion MM1's is a 37c65c. If one changes the xtal to 32 mhz and if Carl would change the floppy driver the 2.88 meg drives could be used. The controller does support the drives but you give up single density and we thought that people wanted to suport that mode so we did not go along with the change. It is up to paul to decide if he wants to offer modifications for the new drives. Kevin Pease exit There is 1 Reply. #: 16390 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Sep-92 10:52:36 Sb: #16389-New drives Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 Kevin, Yes, I knew that, but did not think anyone was prepared to give up all the other drive modes to read/write 2.88 meg disks. Still, you message will be godd information to others. On another subject, what are the chances of getting to source code for the boot ROMs from you? Might like to publish then in the next edition of the tech manual. Mark #: 16352 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-92 19:02:27 Sb: #16346-New drives Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) One other thing to keep an eye on would be the SCSI Floptical drives that store 20 MB on a floppy like media. (I've not been paying too much attention to these myself since I already have a Teac SCSI tape drive.) For several reasons (like access speed and cost per megabyte) I think that the Syquest 44 or 88 MB removable hard disks are a better deal than the Flopticals. If the Floptical drives drop into the $200.00 range then I think they'll have a better chance. On a related note, I saw a nifty item in the recent Dalco catalog. It is a mounting frame that fits into a 5.24" drive bay and has a removable frame for a 3.5" hard drive. This allows you to make ANY 3.5" hard disk into a removable hard drive. Used small capacity (<= 50mb) 3.5" SCSI hard disks are becoming easier and easier to find these days with Amiga and Mac owners upgrading to larger drives. -J #: 16347 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Aug-92 22:49:23 Sb: #16340-#source_part 2 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hey guys....I don't like to whine, but I tried the code Larry posted too. It looked okay to me...and was looking forward to the fixes being discussed here. But if you guys start using mail, then the rest of us get left out.... . There is 1 Reply. #: 16349 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-92 00:36:08 Sb: #16347-#source_part 2 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Sorry, Bob. The only real problem was 2 statement Change: Palette(path,10*3,210,105,30); To: Palette(path,10,210,105,30); And Change: clutoffset = palnum * 3; To: clutoffset = palnum; The confusion lies in that each palette register is 24 bits with 8 bits each of Red, Green and Blue. Palnum above needs to be the actual palette number NOT the byte offset into the palette CLUT. The other problem he's having is that he's using the original cgfx.l that had a bug in the Palette and _gs/_ss_palette functions. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16359 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-92 23:41:09 Sb: #16349-#source_part 2 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Thanks Mike. I noticed the * 3 stuff and wondered about. However, it didn't occur to me that setting a palette outside the valid range would cause problems. Guess it does. When I ran the original on /term it would crash my system--worked okay on the other windows (although it gave erronous results). I guess that the clut is only as big as needed for a particular screen type and setting values outside of that range will clobber unknowns. There are 2 Replies. #: 16370 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-92 23:12:29 Sb: #16359-source_part 2 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I believe that setting palettes outside the CLUT of the window will just wrap around. But if it was crashing your machine, maybe not. Hey Mr. Darling? What happens? - Mike - #: 16383 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Sep-92 01:16:11 Sb: #16359-source_part 2 Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Thanks for reminding me, I got to quit this email stuff, I'm a lurker to :-) As you heard, the problem was that I was using revision 2 of CGFX instead of revision 3. I had downloaded CGFX 3 different times from 3 different places, in order to make sure I had the newest version, but it never dawned on me that revision 3 was in the file Win38. I already had Windio38 so I didn't think I needed to download it, it came on an update disk back in Jan. or Feb. The thing with the Clutoffset was just one of the versions I had tried to get to work. I had originally just used the palette number, but when that didn't work I was trying other things, like multiplying the Clutoffset by 3. So everything is working now,(fingers crossed), and I'll try to keep these messages out in the open. We need more traffic here ;-) larry #: 16348 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-92 00:35:41 Sb: #16341-#source_part 2 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) You need to grab the latest update stuff from lib 12. I believe it has the latest cgfx.l in it. Sounds to me like your using the orig cgfx.l. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16381 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Sep-92 00:32:48 Sb: #16348-source_part 2 Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I left you email on it, but that's what it was. larry #: 16353 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-92 22:12:01 Sb: #16220-#sh Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Uh, yeah, you heard that. I haven't fixed much yet. Only one thing. What is your biggest peave (it probably isn't what I fixed)? There is 1 Reply. #: 16366 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-92 17:32:32 Sb: #16353-#sh Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Actually ... I haven't tried it. I've found nothing but trouble (mostly due to my inexperience with intuative thought and the German language !) in attempting to mess with any of te TOPS stuff. That's why I was excited when I heard you were mucking about with the code. I actually might be able to use it. :-) But, in discussions with Barry Bond, who has used it, the mention of a problem with security came up. A normal user has the ability to chown ? If this isn't enough detail ... I'll press him for more. There is 1 Reply. #: 16368 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-92 22:18:34 Sb: #16366-#sh Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Ah ha. You worry about the one thing I *have* fixed. So I guess I should get you a copy and docs. I'll put it in the queue. (acutally, there was a builtin called setuid that, well, could be best described as a security cavern) There is 1 Reply. #: 16374 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Sep-92 17:32:03 Sb: #16368-sh Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Hot dog! I'll keep my eyes peeled for your lastest offering. I really miss the history option I had with shell+. I understand sh will take care of this for me. Steve #: 16358 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-92 23:40:58 Sb: #Combining C and asm Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Is there any way to share C-language #defines with assembler routines? What I want to do is something like this... First off, in a C file I define something: #define FOO 12345 Now, in a #asm section I want to use the contant FOO like this: #asm asmfunc: move.l #FOO,d0 .... #endasm Of course, what happens now is that cpp stops working when it hits #asm sections and FOO is assembled as an external reference which never gets resolved. Anyone with some brilliant thoughts? There are 2 Replies. #: 16361 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-92 06:48:19 Sb: #16358-#Combining C and asm Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob: Sorry if you think this is a kludge, but it works! Try a coding style like this: #asm FOO set 12345 #endasm extern int FOO; /* if C source will need the definition */ cfunction() { int x = FOO; #asm move.l #FOO,d0 #endasm printf( "%d\n", x ); } The example shows a definition (once in assembler) that can be seen by asm AND C. Granted it isn't terribly clean. Hope this helps. Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 16369 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-92 22:26:37 Sb: #16361-Combining C and asm Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Bob Santy 76417,714 (X) Bob & Kev: Thanks for the help. I'd not thought of using a variable...of course this will work. But, unfortunately, it's not the best for my application. I have a table of about 200 contants. Copying the all to variables would take a fair amount of memory, plus it'd probably slow things down a bit. (Which brings up a sore point with C...if you have a long list of order contants you have to #define each of them...#define ONE 1;#define TWO 2;etc. A shortcut for that would be nice. I wonder, maybe enum would help?) On the other hand...if I take a hint from Kevin's reply... I only need a few of the 200 or so constants in my asm stuff. So I guess I could just do this: #define FOO 12345 int fooint=FOO; #asm foofunc: move.l fooint(a6),d0 ... #endasm This way I'd just have to have duplicates for the 2 or 3 constants I _really_ need to play assember with. Thanks to all. #: 16362 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-92 08:05:04 Sb: #16358-Combining C and asm Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Well, I guess you could simply include the assembler equate, too: #define FOO 12345 #asm FOO equ 12345 #endasm But what I do instead is to take such constants, and store them as variables: #define FOOVAL 12345 static int foo; /* foo is a variable */ void setfoo() /* This function called by main on init */ { foo = FOOVAL; } void dofoo() /* This function called to use foo from asm */ { #asm move.l foo(a6),d0 ... #endasm } #: 16378 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-92 18:14:19 Sb: #16290-#more ?? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Larry, Amiga fonts are any size, usually proportional, and some have 4 or 16 colors. Most are set up for use in video titling software, and are pretty huge (40 to 70 pixels high). So at this point, my support is very simple... just output. It's also fairly slow, as I draw them dot per dot (they're bitplane packed). Later on, I'll come up with a conversion utility to some new and quicker format, but for now usage is easy: simply merge the binaries you downloaded into a special graphics buffer group. So much to do; so little time :-) PS: yes, C usually buffers output. Others here can tell you how to prevent that if wished. (you can also use the flush commands to flush the buffer) There is 1 Reply. #: 16382 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Sep-92 00:42:52 Sb: #16378-#more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, So the characters in the Amiga fonts, would be used like an object in a Get/Put buffer or are they used just like a regular font ? Are these fonts anything like those Harvard Graphics ? larry There is 1 Reply. #: 16384 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Sep-92 11:29:44 Sb: #16382-#more ?? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) The AMiga fonts can be used as normal fonts, but they often don't have all the characters you'd expect (some sets miss punctuation, others have no lowercase, etc). So you print with them (I figured this was easier). As I mentioned, the support is very rough right now; no pixel per pixel start coordinate setting yet, for example. And I need to rethink the way color fonts (4 or 16 colors) are utilized. But as rough as it is, you can still make some pretty title screens :-) Soon I'll rewrite the entire text output stuff to make use of multisize fonts, etc. (Right now I use the pixac for speed, and it's optimized for word bounds). There is 1 Reply. #: 16388 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Sep-92 01:23:15 Sb: #16384-#more ?? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, It sounds like, if you can work them in, the system will have the hard part of a Home Publisher type program, built in. The mind boggles :-) There is 1 Reply. #: 16392 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Sep-92 14:31:35 Sb: #16388-more ?? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 Actually, the hard part will be that a desktop pub program will have to keep track of all the proportional spacing and char positions (something I can't do for a program). That'll take some hard work (but obviously not impossible since it's been done elsewhere) on someone's part :-) #: 16379 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-92 18:15:07 Sb: #16345-#Windio for MM/1 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Hi Glen, As soon as testers tell me that there's no outstanding bugs in the latest version (v46), it'll be posted to everyone. Should be just a few days. What I think we're going to do with the function keys is this: each program will need to have all its functions available via ctrl or alt key combos... but the fn keys can also be setup (via a program config file or module) to return any desired combination of keycodes. Thus a user can override these assignments if he wishes, and set up ones which match his own preferences or most-used functions. This stuff is also handy with older apps. For example, you can (and I have) set up global system defaults so that my function keys return commonly used umacs key combos (load, save, quit, etc). After playing with this a while, I've realized that I also need to add a "training" option (like I hear Puppo's keyboard interface had)... so that you can make a macro on the fly (hit F12, then the function key to train, then the keystrokes you wish it to return, then F12 to stop training). Whatcha think? kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 16380 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-92 23:03:02 Sb: #16379-Windio for MM/1 Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin... The 'training' mode sounds like a good idea. The re-configurable keyboard is a good idea; very flexible - unfortunately, it's also a whole new 'can of worms' for programmers! I guess you could have your program reset things to suit itself, tho... and switch back when done. Anyway, I'm waiting for V46 - will there be docs? Even crude notes would be adequate for now... Now get back to work! :-) See ya! Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 #: 16387 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Sep-92 00:37:43 Sb: #lzh file needs fixing Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: all I have a .lzh file I NEED to fix... any ideas? lha can extract the first four files, then it craps out. The .lzh is a fairly complete set of documentation and sample C code for IFF files. I got it from a FTP site in Europe(slow) forwiss.uni-passau.de (if interested). So far I only have bits and pieces... There is 1 Reply. #: 16391 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Sep-92 14:30:03 Sb: #16387-lzh file needs fixing Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Stephen - why does it stop? Can you tell from the archive directory? Like, perhaps it has some filenames with non-os9 characters? ("-","\", etc) With those, sometimes you can use dEd and change them in the .lzh file... and get a good extract. If it's not a filename problem, then it could be a bad file. Press !> #: 16399 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-92 01:52:28 Sb: #Gadgets Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Hi Stephen... I've been playing with your Gadget/Button files. Real nice - I know I could do it myself, but is there any chance I could get a copy of your lib when you're done (with some simple docs). No use reinventing the wheel. Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 There is 1 Reply. #: 16408 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-92 19:05:34 Sb: #16399-Gadgets Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) I'll upload the lib for GADGETs soon. I've made some minor changes to improve memory efficiency and soon will have the bitmaps for gadgets worked out. #: 16402 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-92 14:41:42 Sb: #16390-#New drives Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark Some of the boot rom source is copywrite by Microware. The rest is copyrite by Myself. The boot rom code is lisenced to IMS for the MM1 and I use it in other places. I would prefer not publishing it. The only thing that people would give-up is the single density modes. Since the universal format doesent use track 0 side 0 the sacrifice of the single density might not be so bad. There is 1 Reply. #: 16404 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-92 08:49:23 Sb: #16402-#New drives Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 (X) Kevin, Well, since the boot ROM code is licensed to IMS, then I suppose I should contact them about getting permission to publish the code in the tech manual. If you think the users should be able to use 2.88 meg disks, then get going on the driver. BTW: did you ever get a complete schematic of the MM/1 printed? If so, can I get one from you? Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16406 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-92 13:27:35 Sb: #16404-New drives Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark it is not up to IMS to publish the source code. As a licensee of OS9 they don't have any right to publish microware code. Why should they have a right to publish the code that I have supplied them. I have licensed to them executable code not source code. Mark I long ago supplied complete schematics to IMS. I don't know what they did with them. #: 16410 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-92 22:17:21 Sb: #16285-Atari? Windows? Fm: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) HEy what about that new version of kwindows for my tc70? I get lockups when I use it with modem on t1 and of course docs would be nice! (I have only the preliminary version)...which I paid full price for. #: 16411 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-92 21:05:01 Sb: #16374-#sh Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Ok. I have marked up docs (20 pages or so) that I need to clean up. Others could use the docs too, I reckon. There are 2 Replies. #: 16412 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Sep-92 07:33:39 Sb: #16411-sh Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Docs? Docs? We doan need no stinkin' docs! We're MM/1 owners and have been trained to deal with sophisticated equipment and operating software intuatively! Ahem! I feel better now. Seriously .... take your time and do it up right, Carl. Sh will be a popular item. Steve #: 16415 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Sep-92 20:31:41 Sb: #16411-sh Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 What? Docs for sh? That would be a lot nicer than being told that it's just like the UNIX version . Especially when I don't happen to have a "Guide to the Unix Shell" in my library. #: 16417 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Sep-92 20:35:37 Sb: #Supervisor Mode Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Does anyone know how to get a program to run in the Supervisor mode? I am trying to manipulate some of the on-chip peripherals of the 68070. I have written a driver and descriptor but it does not work. Now I am writting a simple program to try and solve my problem. If I set bit #5 of the Attr byte then the program is in the Supervisor mode but hangs up the entire MM/1. But, if I don't set the S bit and go into Sysdbg, I can step through the program after setting the S bit and everything seems fine! What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions? Thanks Bert Schneider There is 1 Reply. #: 16419 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Sep-92 07:56:55 Sb: #16417-#Supervisor Mode Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Bert Schneider 70244,427 (X) Bert, I haven't had the time to start tinkering with system level stuff on the MM/1 yet. I'm sure Kevin, Carl, or someone else will know the answer. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 16423 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Sep-92 21:59:36 Sb: #16419-Supervisor Mode Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 Thanks! I've asked Kevin, he hasn't done this yet! I'll try to figure it out. I think the problem is once a process is in the supervisor mode, there is no multi-tasking! Meaning I can't be in another window looking at that process using sysdbg! Any suggestions out there? Bert Schneider #: 16418 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Sep-92 06:15:20 Sb: #Laptop Fm: Christian Daschill 100112,277 To: All I am developing machine vision applications under os9 running on a 68030 board of a german manufacturer. My development platform is a 68040 system, fairly fast, but exceptionally big and a royal pain to lug around. In order to make life on the road easier for me and my collegues, I am looking for a laptop solution. I could imagine it to be os9 running on an Apple Powerbook or a PC-DOS based crosscompiler for the 68020/30 CPU's. Anyone ever come across something like that? Rgds, Chris There is 1 Reply. #: 16421 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Sep-92 19:19:42 Sb: #16418-Laptop Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Christian Daschill 100112,277 Chris, I know this is an awfully obvious answer, but ... Microware does have cross tools that work on PC-DOS or MS-DOS computers, so why not contact them? Bud Press !> #: 16426 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Sep-92 20:27:06 Sb: #16412-sh Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Love your sense of humor! (And point is well taken 8-{) It is on the list, but I'm flogging ar right now. Need to get that off my back. Carl #: 16427 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Sep-92 20:29:05 Sb: #16415-sh Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Yes, along with the sources I got docs to the parent version. There are enough diffences that I'd prefer not to ship it, but I have a marked up hardcopy and just need to type in the changes, nroff it, etc. All I really need is more hours in a day ;) #: 16428 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Sep-92 23:13:45 Sb: #Manuals Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Hi Paul... When can I expect to get my OSK manuals? This is getting ridiculous! I've had the machine for almost a year and I'm still stumbling around guessing at things and/or asking people questions to find out what I should know already. Lets have some manuals!!! Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 There are 2 Replies. #: 16439 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-92 10:02:28 Sb: #16428-#Manuals Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, I suspect that you'll have to order the manuals directly from Microware. You might also contact Ed Gresick at DELMAR. He has told me he might be interested in selling the OSK manual set to those that don't have them. I realize that your MM/1 purchase was supposed to include manuals. From what I and been told, the original agreement between Microware and IMS was that they would get only a few (I believe it was about 50) sets of OSK manuals for the number of licenses IMS purchased (which was more than the 50). It was up to IMS to write their own manuals for their machine and include in them all they felt was necessary from the Microware manual set. Not to say it was OK form IMS to copy the information verbatim, but to create a new set of manuals. Those were the manuals that IMS was to provide along with the machine. Needless to say, this set of manuals has not been done. I have contacted Paul Ward about this several months ago and said I would do the manuals. He has still not gotten back to me on it or sent me the information he promised to enable me to start writing them. Last I heard, the manual set from Microware was going for about $120, or maybe as low as $80. Let me know what the price is if you decide to contact them or Ed Gresick. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16446 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-92 23:07:30 Sb: #16439-#Manuals Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark... This is starting to make me a little mad. I talked to MicroWare. They want something like $200+ for a set of manuals. I don't think I should have to pay extra - they should come with the machine. Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 There is 1 Reply. #: 16448 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Sep-92 10:51:52 Sb: #16446-#Manuals Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Yes, I agree. That was the origianl intent of IMS. Somewhere along the way, the desire seems to have been lost. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16451 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Sep-92 22:40:26 Sb: #16448-Manuals Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark... Well I don't know what else to say. Guess I'll just sit here and steam for a while. Paul told me once that they might buy a batch of manuals "late summer or thereabouts". I'd say it's pretty much "thereabouts" now! One of these days he'll read this thread and hopefully it'll inspire him to do something about this situation. (I hope). #: 16440 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-92 14:23:35 Sb: #16428-#Manuals Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen - let me ask around. I *think* I know someone who was given two sets of manuals. There is 1 Reply. #: 16447 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-92 23:09:56 Sb: #16440-Manuals Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin... If you could find a spare set, I would be thrilled to see them. Have you talked to Paul lately about this? What is he doing about it? Anyway, thanks for the help. Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 #: 16430 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Sep-92 17:32:48 Sb: #recursive functions Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all C programmers I have a question regarding recursive use of functions for you C people. If I recursively call the same function within the function, where will the system pointer return to when the 2nd call to a function is made??? Example: func() { /* program coding*/ if (my params exist){ secondfunc(); func(); } /*other continued code*/ } I have called up the function 'secondfunc() if all conditions exist, and after secondfunc() runs, I want to run the original func() from it's beginning, with information that I get from secondfunc(). After secondfunc() runs, then func() runs, does the system pointer then go back to the end of the func() call, therefore executing rest of the code from my original call to func()?? If so, I should declare an exit after func(). Any help would be appreciated. Thanks much for your help!! jim There is 1 Reply. #: 16435 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-92 06:55:56 Sb: #16430-#recursive functions Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim - Each 'instance' of 'func()' gets copies of all of the code within func(), therefore upon execution secondfunc() and func(), program control will return to whichever copy of func() called it, and execute the rest of the code in _that_ copy of func(), before returning to its caller, which MAY be another copy of func(). If that's the case, the calling copy of func()'s remaining code will then be executed upon return. Also - don't use exit() unless you want to leave the program. You could use return(), if the situation called for it.... Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 16444 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-92 21:31:57 Sb: #16435-#recursive functions Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Thanks for the information, Pete --> that is what I really did expect, but needed confirmation from someone who had done it before. Now I gotta rewrite some coding so I can use a break statement after that second call to func(), so the program doesn't re-run from that point. Take care, and thanks again. jim There are 2 Replies. #: 16445 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-92 21:47:33 Sb: #16444-recursive functions Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim - Great, but use 'return', and not 'break'... break is only useful leaving a while() or switch() or for() loop. Pete #: 16450 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Sep-92 22:00:37 Sb: #16444-#recursive functions Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) This might be heresy...but you might consider using a GOTO . I find goto's very useful to exit a function without a lot of flag checking simply by putting an EXIT label at the end and then doing a goto EXIT. You might also consider doing a loop at the top of you function to loop back rather than calling it recursively (hard to judge that, not knowing what it is you are doing). return is fine, but the compiler will give all kinds of warnings if you just do a return from a function not declared as void (return 0 is fine). And declaring functions as void has it's own interesting side effects... There is 1 Reply. #: 16453 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Sep-92 09:14:32 Sb: #16450-recursive functions Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) When I went to school to learn 'the basics' about C, I had a total of 3 instructors. I got 3 DIFFERENT answers about using goto's from these gentlemen. 1) Never use goto's; 2) they are part of the language, and therefore can be used anywhere and anytime you want to; and 3) use them judiciously, there is normally another way out of your problem than using a goto. I prefer to think in terms of using goto's as the third man told me - judicious use. Thanks for the tips. jim #: 16432 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Sep-92 20:10:13 Sb: BGFX docs Fm: keith bauer 71102,317 To: Kevin Darling Kevin, I was wondering if you had anything put together yet in the way of docs for BGFX. I am tring to port over some stuff I wrote on the CoCo using your improved Gfx2. I would like to know how the menu calls work. If you have even a rough draft that you could email me I could use that. Thanks Keith Bauer #: 16434 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-92 02:37:39 Sb: #16421-Laptop Fm: Christian Daschill 100112,277 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Bud, Shame on me: right after I posted my question, the very same thing occurred to me, and I found info about PC-bridge in the Microware forum and I'll take it from there. Nevertheless, thanks for your reply. Regards, Chris #: 16455 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Sep-92 23:45:27 Sb: #16358-#Combining C and asm Fm: steve mann 70740,741 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I use PC Bridge and have a C program that will convert .H to .D files. (H2D.C, of course). I just have my makefile run H2D on my .H file if it's newer than the .D file. This way I have identical #defines and equ's. (It doesn't use up memory for variables, either.) I will upload it later th this week. Steve, in CA There is 1 Reply. #: 16466 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Sep-92 20:14:16 Sb: #16455-Combining C and asm Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: steve mann 70740,741 Thanks Steve. I look forward to seeing your H2D prog. I can see uses for it already. #: 16456 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Sep-92 00:02:51 Sb: #Who Used OS/9-68K? Fm: steve mann 70740,741 To: ALL I am a software engineer (group leader) who is interested in exploring new opportunities, particularly using OS/9-68K in embedded processor products. I would be interested in learning the names of companies which do use OS/9-68K... Thanks, Steve (In CA), 70740,741 There are 3 Replies. #: 16459 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Sep-92 03:59:20 Sb: #16456-Who Used OS/9-68K? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: steve mann 70740,741 Hi Steve, If you call Microware (515-224-1929), they can send you a list of hundreds of companies who use OS-9.... from NASA on down. It's extremely likely that at some time in your life you've come in contact with an OS-9 based embedded system but never knew it :-) What kind of embedded products is your group most interested in? kev #: 16462 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Sep-92 15:03:34 Sb: #16456-Who Used OS/9-68K? Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: steve mann 70740,741 Steve, Have you ever seen them boot up the machine in your post office that the clerk uses to tell how much postage you need to pay for that letter or package? Ask 'em to do it sometime, and you might be surprised to see an OSK sign on. Wayne #: 16464 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Sep-92 18:59:42 Sb: #16456-Who Used OS/9-68K? Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: steve mann 70740,741 We have two Denning robots - they have 68K processors (the older one a 68008, the newwer one I think is a 68000, but I am not sure). They both use OSK (the older one uses OSK version 1.something in ROMs, the newwer one has a boot floppy). This is at UMass/Amherst. We use these beasts for robotics research (mostly driven from silly UNIX boxes). The 68Ks are used to manage Z80s controling the drive motors and ultrasonic sensors and to communicate to the outside world (the UNIX boxes in our case). Robert #: 16470 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Sep-92 02:22:15 Sb: #16423-Supervisor Mode Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Bert Schneider 70244,427 Usually system state processes run in supervisor state. You are right no other task can run while a supervisor state program runs. ei #: 16477 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Sep-92 01:24:02 Sb: GADGETs Lib Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: all Who ever wanted the GADGETs lib, I've uploaded it. Sorry, no real docs.. My wife has been in and out of the hospital ALL week. Have fun! #: 16478 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Sep-92 01:35:58 Sb: #DL12 Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: sysop (X) I think we NEED more space for uploads? There is 1 Reply. #: 16479 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Sep-92 02:44:56 Sb: #16478-DL12 Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 I take a peek and see about getting some more right away. #: 16483 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Sep-92 21:13:57 Sb: #16470-#Supervisor Mode Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) I found out the hard way. I guess I'll just have to write a dumb SCF driver! Bert There is 1 Reply. #: 16493 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Sep-92 04:40:28 Sb: #16483-#Supervisor Mode Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Bert Schneider 70244,427 (X) What are you trying to do anyway? There is 1 Reply. #: 16518 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Sep-92 17:49:39 Sb: #16493-Supervisor Mode Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) I'm trying to manipulate some of the on-chip devices of the 68070 under OSK. I guess I'll just write a dumb SCF driver and use GetStat and PutStat calls. Bert #: 16488 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Sep-92 23:03:33 Sb: #MM/1 SNDDRV Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: 76703,4227 (X) What is the MAX. Sampling rate support by SNDDRV? 30KHz I read somewhere... What about lowest? I've been told the hardware will do 44KHz... ? Also, how many request will SNDDRV buffer? Any features or specifics I should know about? All information is apprecated and will help with the development of SoundWorks for the MM/1. There is 1 Reply. #: 16491 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Sep-92 00:25:51 Sb: #16488-MM/1 SNDDRV Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Stephen, Ummm... lessee. SndDrv will buffer up to 8 requests, altho what happens after that is undefined. (In other words, I haven't had time to work on snddrv in a long time, and too many requests could be bad news :-)) Supported freq range right now is from 1117Hz up to 30720Hz, in whatever increments the timer chip allows (generally about 100-200Hz diffs). The driver automatically picks the closest available freq to the one requested. kevin #: 16490 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Sep-92 00:25:25 Sb: #16410-Atari? Windows? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 Hi Bruce, Apologies that I haven't worked much on the TC version... Frank said that he only needed to buy five copies, which is less than the number of people who want the ST version(!). But I guess I should send him whatever I have now so that you'll have a real version (and so I'll get paid). best - kevin #: 16498 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Sep-92 22:28:46 Sb: #dir upload Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: sysop (X) I uploaded a program 'dir.lzh' earlier tonight. For some reason CIS was reacting so slowly I got ahead of my self and screwed up the short title and keyboards. Should be: title: enhanced dir from EFFO/TOP group keywords: dir effo top Thanks. There is 1 Reply. #: 16504 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Sep-92 17:32:13 Sb: #16498-dir upload Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I've editied both the title and keywords as requested. The file should be viewable by the time you read this. Thanks for your upload! Steve #: 16519 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Sep-92 00:04:24 Sb: #16325-MM/1 Mouse Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, I have a mouseman that uses the Mouse Systems driver, an older mouse but still not a cheapie. It works perfectly every time. You are using this on /t2, I suppose? You should be. Also, make sure the mouse works correctly on a PC or something, it may be flaky. As a last resort, if you are using /t2, there my may be something different about the voltage levels you are getting. If you know someone with the appropriate meters you can check for that. The tech manual should tell you the right levels or ask one of the MM/1 gurus here. The esteemed Mark Griffith should be a great help. Best, Pal oops, Paul IMS #: 16520 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Sep-92 00:08:55 Sb: #16428-Manuals Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, The scoop is simple. I do not have manuals. IMS bought an incredible number of OSK licenses to keep your costs down. Microware gave us an alotment of manuals, 100 sets of the paperbound manuals and about sixty sets of the hardbound manuals. Then the MM/1 sold like hotcakes and they all went away. Then the SCSI host adapter chip that we specified for the I/o board was not installed by the factory on the I/o board, causing hideous delays that were always out of our hands. Then we let go of some staff, stretching my time to the point that I could not manufacture IMS MM/1 manuals that replace the Microware manuals. There is the story. I am in the middle of writing the IMS MM/1 manuals that will cover all the information you need and a lot more. In the meantime, I can get you professionalmanuals, but not with ease. (E.g, the profit margin on) Call me after the fest. I will fill you in on the way to get manuals. BELIEVE ME, I have not been holding out on ya! Paul IMS Press !> #: 16539 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Sep-92 10:16:37 Sb: TC70 modules Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all Any TC70 owner: I could use your help, if you please. Frank finally uploaded to me the newest version of the sc2661 driver and the uq37c65 module. Welp, his archive is damaged (from passing between his machines), and he said it's gonna be 'a while' before he can get them transfered to his machine to resend to me. Wondering if I could ask a TC70 owner, with the current, correct, modules, to send them to me here. An important test of my system is awaiting these modules (Murphy's Law - naturally!!)..... Thanks. jim #: 16550 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Sep-92 17:01:22 Sb: TC70 modules Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all TC70 Owners: Please cancel my request for getting the sc2661 and uq37c65 drivers. Talked to Frank this afternoon, and he told me that he thought the MAC might pad the .lzh file. I checked and found out that there were 128 additional bytes in the file that shouldn't be there. Using the fu command, I easily stripped the first 128 bytes from the file. The resultant .lzh file dearchived properly!! Another emergency taken care of. (whew!!) jim #: 16552 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Sep-92 20:20:38 Sb: #Dallas Semi Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Can anyone help me with an address or phone number for Dallas Semiconductor? I'd like to get a data sheet for the MM/1 real time clock. There are 2 Replies. #: 16566 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Sep-92 18:07:38 Sb: #16552-Dallas Semi Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I assume that you're talking about the Dallas Semiconductor in Dallas, Tx. Information here says that their number is 450-0400, and the area code for Dallas is 214. Hope this helps. Lee #: 16579 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Sep-92 13:03:44 Sb: #16552-Dallas Semi Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, What information do you need? I have the spec sheet for that device. Pretty simple really. It took me several months to finally get the specs from DS. I guess they are not real fast in answering requests for data sheets. Mark #: 16553 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Sep-92 21:14:21 Sb: #16490-#Atari? Windows? Fm: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) More people want an ST version? It has been very rare that I have heard of osk users using atari or ST. Where have these people been. Where do they go for support? I wonder if osk runs well on an ST Thanks for sending your updated stuff to frank. I dont beleive he has done much of a job in pushing his kwindows. I dont really understand. He has been afraid that you would not give adequate support but he has lived with that from every program or programmers. I like your kwindows and have worked out most of the bugs... they werent really bugs. I do have one problem to report: I cannot communicate through /t1 with sterm under kwindows. The whole commputer locks up after about 50 characters are received! I can start a shell on /t1 and run programs from there under kwindows and I can use sterm under vt70. I can also use sterm through my kbus 4 port card... just not through /t1 (which is where zmodem is required to operate). There are 2 Replies. #: 16561 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Sep-92 09:29:29 Sb: #16553-Atari? Windows? Fm: JBM Electronics 71174,3442 To: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 You can always re-compile the Zmodem software to use another serial port, there is a constant within the first 100 lines which contains the port number, it is easy to find. #: 16596 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 19:18:38 Sb: #16553-Atari? Windows? Fm: David George 72240,134 To: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 Actually there are some people with Atari's running OSK. I have a Mega ST 2 upgraded to 4Meg Ram and OSK works great on it. I am using the latest STCIO up here and it would be nice to have key repeat back some day, but it does work well. #: 16571 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Sep-92 00:45:30 Sb: #16490-Atari? Windows? Fm: Paul Tesch 73500,3703 To: [F] Bruce Moore 70075,143 Bruce, RE: zmodem. If you have the same rz and sz that I have (the ones from e ), it should be easy to patch them to use any port you like. If you dump rz and sz, you should find a /t1 at 335e and 374f respectively. If not there then look around a bit. I've got mine set up for /t2 now. Paul #: 16556 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Sep-92 03:37:14 Sb: Ultra C Compiler Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: All To all SYSTEM IV/PT68K2-4 owners The new Ultra C Compiler from MW will be made available to owners of SYSTEM IV/PT68K2-4 systems. The price will be substantially lower than being offered by MW. This offer is limited and will expire about October 25, 1992. For further information, contact - Peripheral Technology at 404-972-2156 or Delmar Co at 302-378-2555 Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO #: 16557 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Sep-92 03:38:20 Sb: #MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: All To all MM/1 owners, Several of you have asked me if I can obtain the manuals for Professional OS9. I've made a special arrangement with MW where I can provide you with the official Professional OS9 Manuals. These cover the commands, the assembler calls, the C-Compiler Version 3.2, etc.; in other words, the full manuals as provided by MW. I can offer these at 10% less than the regular MW price. To do this, I will require at least 10 orders. If interested, send me E-Mail or call 302-378-2555. If someone has access to FIDO, StGNet and the CoCo List on Internet, please post this information. Thank you. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO There are 2 Replies. #: 16560 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Sep-92 08:43:43 Sb: #16557-#MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed --> I'll be happy to put your message up on the StG Network and also on Fido. It'd be great if these guys could get their manuals...... jim There is 1 Reply. #: 16588 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 03:32:23 Sb: #16560-MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, Thanks, Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO #: 16564 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Sep-92 17:32:37 Sb: #16557-#MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, So just what _is_ the normal MW price? :-) *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16587 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 03:31:50 Sb: #16564-#MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, MW's price for the manuals is $195.00 plus s/h. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO There is 1 Reply. #: 16595 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 17:32:12 Sb: #16587-#MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Thanks Ed. Pretty steep pricing ...even with your generous 10% discount. *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16597 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 21:32:17 Sb: #16595-#MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Yes, I think those prices are outrageous. Even on mainframe software, the high priced manuals are only about $30 or $40 apiece. I really am beginning to think that Microware is out to rip all of us off. It has taken years to get them to agree to reduce prices on OS9 itself, but to charge those kind of prices for two relatively small (and incomplete) manuals is highway robbery. Hey, maybe I can get the state of Florida price gouging group they've set up AA (after Andrew) to challenge the price! ;-) Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 16605 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Oct-92 19:22:43 Sb: #16597-#MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, Aren't you being a little rough on MW? I'm not defending their position necessarily, (I have many beefs) but it is important to understand how they work. MW's primary customers are OEMs. They have set-up a few dealers (I'm one) and they will, reluctantly, deal with the end user. Because of the wide variety of hardware and the market base each OEM targets, MW believes the OEM knows his hardware and market better than they do. Therefore, they leave it to the OEM to decide what modules and documentation his customers will require and to provide primary support. The per copy license fee is negotiated accordingly. Apparantly, your OEM decided he needed only a limited number of copies of the documentation for his market. From the queries I've received, he apparantly erred on the low side. He is either unwilling or unable (because of the terms of his contract) to order additional manuals. ---- message continues --\ex There are 2 Replies. #: 16606 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Oct-92 19:23:30 Sb: #16605-#MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) ---- Part 2 When I contacted MW re obtaining manuals, they did agree to a slight increase in the discount to me to allow a slightly lower end user price. They are aware of the price I am offering. However, to get this additional discount, I must order in multiples of 10. Note, I don't need these for my customers (SYSTEM IV). Professional OS-9 Manuals from MW are included. You say the manuals are small and incomplete. I don't understand that statement. My guess is that the manuals comprise about 1000 pages (I haven't counted them). Sections include a complete technical explanation of the OS, an explanation of the commands, the C-Compiler, the RMA and the debugger. I'm not aware of any other OS that includes all this infor- mation at this price. No, there is no tutorial. It is a technical reference manual. If you need to learn OS-9, Microware does provide courses through-out the country at various times for various levels of knowledge and needs. I often have to purchase 'programmers' manuals for various terminals just to get information for termcap entries. These vary in price from $30 to $60 with most being around $50. The exception is the VT series from DEC - they want $135 per manual. Now, that is a rip-off. By the way, most of these manuals are 100 pages or less. ----- Message continues There is 1 Reply. #: 16607 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Oct-92 19:24:12 Sb: #16606-MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) dickhaus3 ----- Part 3 When I first took on the SYSTEM IV, I contacted AT&T re porting UNIX to the SYSTEM IV. My cost for manuals, if I had gotten a license, would have been $200 per set and that didn't include the C-Compiler or the assembler. SCO gets a similar price for their manuals; again, with the same limitations. I'm not trying to defend any of MW's practices - rather, I'm trying to put them in perspective with regard to comparable OSs I'm familiar with. Your complaint, if any, should not be with MW (or me) but rather with the provider of your equipment - he is responsible to see that you have the necessary information for your system in accordance with the terms of your purchase agreement. BTW, is your hardware provider offering you 'Ultra-C'?. MW is offering the upgrade for $500.00. You must prove you are a legitimate owner of Professional OS-9 and/or the C-Compiler and the offer expires the end of this month. Alternatively, most OEM's are offering the upgrade to their customers at a price lower than MWs. Customers of DELMAR CO and Peripheral Technology will be able to get the upgrade for $200 - not much over cost. All of the OEM offers will probably expire the end of this month, also. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO #: 16610 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Oct-92 22:53:33 Sb: #16605-MW Prof. OSK Manuals Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, Yes, I guess I was a little rough, I have to admit that I considered going back and deleting that message after I had left it. I was _not_ defending "my OEM", in fact I got my set of manuals before I got my machine! I don't know why IMS decided not to obtain more manuals, but I suspect (but I really do not know) that its because MW wanted to charge an obscene amount of money for them. As far as my reference to small and incomplete, I was referring to a lack of detailed technical information, rather than tutorials, but it came across as more critical than I intended. I do think the manuals are not too well organized, but there is a lot of information there for the middle of the road user. Not enough for the beginner, or the highly technical user, but still a lot of good information. My beef is not with MW alone. We constantly battle with software vendors at work about high prices for manuals, and in most cases we win, though its usually a tough fight. I did not mean to single out MW in this case, but was annoyed at the high price of the OS9 manual set, I still think its a rip off to charge such high prices for manuals. As I have already stated, I have no complaint with anyone, MW, IMS and especially not with you. I have not heard if IMS has made any arrangements about Ultra-C, and quite frankly, I don't care. I am happy with the GNU C compiler. Why should I pay MW for something I can get for free? Ultra-C may be a good package, but I can't justify spending even as "little" as $200 for it. (You just had to toss that "ad" in there, didn't you! ;-) Bill #: 16562 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Sep-92 16:48:32 Sb: #TC/70 G-Windows Mice Fm: JBM Electronics 71174,3442 To: All I'd like to find out the Brand and Model number of serial mice known to work with G-Windows on a TC/70. Please let me know what you're using. Thanks in advance, -Jay Truesdale There are 2 Replies. #: 16574 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Sep-92 08:56:20 Sb: #16562-TC/70 G-Windows Mice Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: JBM Electronics 71174,3442 (X) Jay: Can't help you a heck of a lot from here. I bought the keyboard with the serial trackball and mouse keys included on the keyboard. Liked the idea of it all being in one better than my CoCo's mouse - darned wire kept getting in the way. (g) Take care. jim #: 16585 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 00:03:30 Sb: #16562-TC/70 G-Windows Mice Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: JBM Electronics 71174,3442 (X) I am using a rather bedraggled DEXXA mouse in logiteck mode which seems to work OK. The cursor movement is not the smoothest though. Perhaps not the mouse's fault. Bob P #: 16568 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Sep-92 20:23:46 Sb: #GIF files for Gwindows Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all TC70/SysIV owners Has anyone had any luck importing GIF files over to the GWindows environment using import_gif?? I've tried stock IBM GIF files, and CoCo GIF files, getting a 249 error when I used import_gif on them. (Haven't been able to find any OS9 GIF files yet here in Los Angeles......) Anyone have any luck?? Thanks. jim There are 2 Replies. #: 16586 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 00:08:41 Sb: #16568-#GIF files for Gwindows Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) As a matter of fact NO. I have not been able to figure out what the fool progranm wants by way of file. Both the show_gif and the import_gif protest that the files }Ure the "wrong type" These are happily displayed on both my coco and a pc. There should be no such thing as an "OS9 GIF" all gif files are supposed to be the same. Time to ask at the source I'm afraid. Same files display OK in KWindows. There is 1 Reply. #: 16591 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 09:45:34 Sb: #16586-GIF files for Gwindows Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 Interesting that the same file displays OK thru KWindows, but import_gif won't work. Think I'll leave Frank a message for when he talks to Steve Adams, to see what the problem is. I'd love to add some pix to the array that he sent with the software. jim #: 16589 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 05:07:25 Sb: #16568-#GIF files for Gwindows Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, The 'import_gif' program originally provided by Steve Adams handled only the older 'gif' format. He has upgraded it to handle the newer 'gif' formats. Contact your G-WINDOWS supplier for the upgraded copy. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO There is 1 Reply. #: 16592 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 09:46:20 Sb: #16589-GIF files for Gwindows Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Thanks, Ed -- wasn't aware that it was upgraded. Will contact Frank right away. jim #: 16581 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Sep-92 17:40:48 Sb: #16520-Manuals Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 What does "(E.g, the profit margin on)" mean, Paul?? If you promised Glen the Manuals with his purchase, then you have a legal and moral obligation to provide them to him NOW, not 6 months or so from now when you get the manuals written. WEven if your purchase of the manuals from MW cost you $150+, and you loose EVERY DIME you make off of Glen, you MUST provide him with the manuals YOU promised him. If not, he has every right to 1)demand a refund from IMS for the full purchase price, or 2)to file suit against IMS for a broken contract. Cut the cr** and get him his manuals!! jim #: 16600 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-92 23:13:14 Sb: #Chart for OSK Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all Got a question for all you OSK guys out here in CIS land.... I am CONSIDERING stocking a chart here at my little company, that will give all the instruction sets for the 68000 (and, therefore, for the 68070, too), including flags, cycle times (not app. to 68070), registers, exception vectors, supervisor & user state modes, pinouts, and much more. (excludes hex opcodes). If I were to stock such a chart (an 8-1/2 x 11 laminated double sided chart), would such a chart be usable by you guys who program in machine code, and, therefore, be a salable product for my company?? These cards are relatively cheap, but I don't want to carry them unless there is an interest in them. Please advise..... Thanks. jim There is 1 Reply. #: 16611 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-92 00:13:00 Sb: #16600-#Chart for OSK Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Hi Jim... I'm interested in the chart. Would save looking up little things in the book all the time. Where do I send my money? Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 There is 1 Reply. #: 16613 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-92 10:57:29 Sb: #16611-Chart for OSK Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen: I'm getting a 'sample' from my supplier late next week. IF it looks as good as the C Chart (that I currently distribute), then I'll order some of the 68000 charts, and place a notice in Hot Topics here. Thanks for your reply, Glen, all I needed to know was IF there were SOME interest. You've given me that assurance. jim #: 16604 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Oct-92 15:46:04 Sb: #C Communications Fm: David George 72240,134 To: ALL I am writing a program in C that reads and writes through the serial ports. I am using Professional OSK v2.2 and trying to use _gs_rdy() to see is there is any data to be read (I have a version that does just a read, but I don't want the program to wait for something that might never come). My problem is when I call _gs_rdy(path) (where path is the return value from open()) it returns -1 with an Error #216 (from errno). Am I on the wrong track? Is there another, better way to communicate through the serial ports than just doing an open on /t1? (I am opening with S_IREAD+S_IWRITE). Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated. David George There is 1 Reply. #: 16612 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-92 09:25:19 Sb: #16604-C Communications Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: David George 72240,134 David - Perhaps a code segment would be best... upload a chunk and we'll look at it. You _are_ on the right track. Pete #: 16608 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Oct-92 20:43:54 Sb: Dallas Semi Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Lee: Thanks for the number. Yes, it works. I ordered the data sheet and it is hopefully on its way. Mark: I do hope I get the data sheet quicker than you did. I just want to see how the Daylight saving time flags are set in the chip (and I guess in the clock driver too). Seems that this beastie knows all about DST. But in this little valley where I live, we don't. We are on the boundry between MST and PST and rather than change our watches, we just hire a guy to more the sign advising travellers to change their watches from one end of the valley to the other. So, I'd like to unset the flag in my clock so that I don't have to redo the time every six months -- not a big deal, but fun. BTW, I asked Motorola for their RTC data sheet, but they were out of stock. (I called them first since they have an 800 number...) They did have some in Hong Kong and Holland, and promised to order one from there and mail it to me when it arrived. Wonder how long that'll be? Press !> #: 16614 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Oct-92 02:52:22 Sb: #16613-#Chart for OSK Fm: Neil Morrison 72777,3013 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) I'd be interested in all your charts, esp. 'C'. These sell around $6 ?? There is 1 Reply. #: 16618 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Oct-92 10:47:39 Sb: #16614-Chart for OSK Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Neil Morrison 72777,3013 (X) Actually, Neil, they are $7 plus $2 S&H.....if interested in the C one, or the assembly one, let's get into private mail about them. jim #: 16619 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Oct-92 13:56:18 Sb: #16612-#C Communications Fm: David George 72240,134 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) here is a section of the code I am using. int rdy_chars; . . . rdy_chars = _gs_rdy(path); if (rdy_chars = -1) exit(errno); This exits with Error #000:216 I know I have opened the port properly and I can read and write to it, because before I call this function I read and write to the remote device without any problems. I have declared path globally. Here is the section that comes before the function call: int path; main (argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { . . . if ((path = open("/t1", S_IREAD+S_IWRITE)) = -1) { error ... } else { read(path, in_line, 1); ... write(path, temp, strlen(temp)); ... } ... } In this section it is ok to what for data to become available, and it works the way it is expected. in_line is char in_line[300], temp is char temp[80]. Thank you for your help. David George There is 1 Reply. #: 16623 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Oct-92 05:49:07 Sb: #16619-#C Communications Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714 To: David George 72240,134 (X) David: If the code is EXACTLY as you have entered, the problem may be that the if (rdy_chars = -1) is ASSIGNING -1 to the variable. Try if( rdy_chars == -1 ) That should get by the wiping out of the _gs_rdy() return value at least. I see that the open() call in main() has the same error as well. Change the = -1 to == -1. C will do ASSIGNMENT with =. Testing for equality is done with ==. Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 16625 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Oct-92 09:22:09 Sb: #16623-#C Communications Fm: David George 72240,134 To: Bob Santy 76417,714 (X) Geeze I had better check that !! The truth is I know better too. I might have just forgotten the == when I typed the message up here. I did use the == in the open, yepp that was the problem with _gs_rdy(). I had made a couple of changes at the time I did that (I was checking to see if it was > 0 before, but I wanted to know if there was an error). I also just finished a Pascal course and I have to keep myself straight now. (I know ... excuses, excuses) Thanks for the help. Signed, Embarrased There is 1 Reply. #: 16626 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Oct-92 17:39:13 Sb: #16625-C Communications Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: David George 72240,134 A hint that I learned in my C course last year might be helpful..... If you type (c = 1) instead of (c == 1), the compiler will NOT notify you of an error. If, on the other hand, you type (1 = c) instead of (1 == c), the ccompiler will kick the first one back as an illegal declaration. C doesn't know the difference, but the compiler sure will.... jim #: 16633 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Oct-92 00:54:43 Sb: sound gen. Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 Kevin, I just had an idea today, that I thought I would throw at you and see what you think. You know how I have been bugging you about a SS_Tone syscall for the MM/1, well maybe one isn't needed. I was thinking about the IFF sound calls,(SS_Play & SS_Record), and how they take analog input, digitize it for storage in memory or take that stored digitized info and convert it to analog for output. The thing is, that at one point in the recording or playing process this audio info is just a bunch of bytes, set to a particular value. With this in mind, couldn't we just have a sound editor type program that would generate the frequency, amplitude and wave shape data for the sounds, and output the result into an IFF sound file. The main point going for doing it this way is that the processor wouldn't be bogged down trying to generate these sounds, and it could take its own sweet time in building up the IFF sound file. This idea sounds so simple to me that I must be over looking something. Has this idea already been kicked around ? Its so simple that someone must have come up with it already, I just havn't heard any mention of it. Larry #: 16634 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Oct-92 12:49:36 Sb: OS-9/NET Broadcasts Fm: David Briggs 100113,1203 To: SYSOP (X) I am writing an ARCNET/NFM protocol analyser module for an NFM licensee. Can anybody explain the meaning of the Cast$* symbols? When are these sent, and how are they encoded (in the Msg_Code field)? This information is proprietary to Microware, so please send a private mail message if you want to preserve the mystery of NFM protocols... Thanks. Best regards, David Briggs Vector Networks (UK) +44 827 67333 #: 16637 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Oct-92 02:00:40 Sb: MM/1 Sound Software Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: ALL I'm working on tow programs for the MM/1 for sound. SoundWorks - a sound recorder/player(IFF, read multiple formats other than IFF), editor, mixer, effects, filtering... Version 1.00 should be available the first week of December. SoundStudio - a synthesized sound creator/editor, and score editor. I hope to have it releasble by the first of next year %-)... For more information one can write me at: Farside Systems Stephen Seneker 4809 Joe Lewis Road Knoxville TN 37920 Stephen #: 16640 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Oct-92 07:54:24 Sb: OSK Advanced Utilities Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ALL All OSK users, DELMAR CO is offering the OS-9 Utility Extension Package from Microware. This is a preliminary release and as such, is not supported. This is a 2 disk set and we have a fair quantity of them in stock. They are distributed on 3 1/2", universal format disks. Documentation is included on the disks. Included in this package are - bfed a binary file editor chown change file owner convert convert ASCII files for different file systems dates daily reminder dement disk defragmentor dirmap display of directory structure fd file descriptor information kermit terminal emulator liborder library ordering utility lmm adds module to OS-9 module directory me MicroEmacs Version 3.9e screen editor more display ASCII files to terminal mv move a file recreate used by the 'dement' disk defragmentor su change user to 'super user' tar tape archiving utility undel retrieve a deleted file unpacklib separate library into relocatables who display system users and curses.l curses library The package must be purchased complete. These utilities are designed to work with Version 2.4 of OS-9 and may not work reliably with earlier versions of OS-9. Pending posting in the libraries, full information and pricing may be obtained via EMAIL or by calling 302-378-2555. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO #: 16642 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Oct-92 11:23:11 Sb: Ultra-C Fm: William F. McGill/CA 73177,3433 To: All What are the advantages in upgrading to the Ultra-C compiler? Is it faster than the old compiler? Will it be more helpful in debugging? I have a product containing many subroutines, and it will be a big job converting it to become ASCII-compliant. I'm just wondering what the payoff would be. Anybody have any experience with Ultra-C? Thanks, --Bill #: 16644 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Oct-92 17:15:48 Sb: OSK Login Shell ?? Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: anyone What is the "magic" to create a "login" shell. Just doing a plain old os9exec(os9fork,"SHELL",...) creates a sub-shell. I want to do something simular to what login does. I plan to write an "Xlogin" program (X11 program that displays a window with a Username: and Password: boxes that will log a user into an X11 display, running an X11 startup procedure, but I want to provide the user with his/her login environment (i.e. I want .login to get executed). Robert #: 16650 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Oct-92 12:07:39 Sb: #gifsho Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I've been playing with Gifsho to view CompuServe Weather maps and am scratching my head over the displayed size of the graphic. With the recent change to the Maps area, I now can select a VGA resolution (Item 1) and download a map as usual. When I display with gifsho, I get a nice looking map ... but it's very narrow and centered in the middle of my type 0 screen. Is this correct or should I be using a different combination of screen type and resolution? What follows is the output from a gifsho -i on a recently downloaded file: GIF version '87a' 378 x 240 screen Global bitmap : 16 colors Image 378 by 240, Top 0, Left 0 Interleaved Image - 4 bits per pixel Have any suggestions? Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 16672 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-92 21:35:52 Sb: #16650-#gifsho Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, It looks to me like the EGA and VGA maps are the same (I checked this out on my PC at work as well as on my MM/1). Maybe they intend to provide better resolution in the future. Gifshow has always (at least for me) displayed the weather map as a narrow picture in the middle of the screen. It also won't handle more than one file at a time without ending with an error. A command like "gifshow current.gif tomorrow.gif 48hour.gif -s" displays the first map, a few lines of the second map, then ends with the error: "illegal code in raster data". Each of the maps displays just fine by itself. Bill There are 2 Replies. #: 16675 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-92 02:51:28 Sb: #16672-#gifsho Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Thanks for the input. If the picture happens to be a different number of bits per pixel, something doesn't get reset in my decoder. I just have to track it down. :( I've got the same report from several sources and have run into the problem myself. Can't for the life of me figure this one out. Hopefully it will be something really simple I overlooked. - Mike - PS If all the pictures are the same res (bits per pixel) then they will work in slide show mode forever. There is 1 Reply. #: 16678 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-92 06:35:28 Sb: #16675-#gifsho Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) I wondered what caused it to happen, since I do know that the slide show works sometimes. I didn't really notice it until I tried to display three days of CIS weather maps in a row. I know all about hard to find bugs (right Steve? :) good luck! Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 16692 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-92 00:02:05 Sb: #16678-gifsho Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Thanks. I'll keep scratching my head till something 'clicks'. #: 16687 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-92 14:07:53 Sb: #16672-gifsho Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Glad it's not just me, Bill. I was begining to wonder! :-) Looks like Mike well into it ... *- Steve -* #: 16677 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-92 02:51:52 Sb: #16650-#gifsho Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I just grabbed a few maps and see what you mean. The maps are in the old 87a format and don't have an aspect ratio built into the file. GIFShow thinks it's a clipping from a 640 x 240 screen and displays it on a 640 x 240 screen. That's why it's long an narrow in the middle of the screen. Wonder why they picked such a weird size for the maps. 320 x 240 would fill the entire screen as expected. GIFShow makes a decision to center the picture if it's greater than 368 pixels wide. It's being displayed on a type 2 screen. Have you run into many 378 x 240 GIFs before? Maybe I need to up the deciding width by 10, huh! - Mike - There are 2 Replies. #: 16679 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-92 06:35:48 Sb: #16677-gifsho Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) I've noticed that the weather maps are a strange size. Some of the viewers I've used on other machines have similar problems trying to scale the picture to match the screen, others seem to figure it out. Maybe the addition of the VGA mode means they will start providing higher resolution, and standard sized, pictures. Bill #: 16686 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-92 14:07:49 Sb: #16677-#gifsho Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I rarely spend much time with gif files. The two notable exceptions are the weather maps and the stuff displayed over in the MQUOTE area. The only problem with the financial stuff is they provide no way to capture the display to a file, and only provide for decoding on the fly. I'm bashing Mark to add such a feature to StermPro. You have any ideas for work arounds with something like this (o wizzard of the gif format!) :-) *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16691 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-92 00:01:53 Sb: #16686-gifsho Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Only idea I have is to make gifshow force 16 color 378 pixels wide or less to full screen. But I've run into GIFs that are 370 x 240 and look perfect when displayed like the weather maps are. But I think they were all 256 colors. I'll play with it. #: 16652 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Oct-92 15:02:50 Sb: #lha and pause Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, With pause on in a window, I find that Lha pauses after about 6 extractions rather than the value I have set in the descriptor. Is there an easy fix you can point me to in the source? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 16673 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-92 21:36:10 Sb: #16652-#lha and pause Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I think that's because of the status display of 'o's moving across the screen. I can't think of any way around that (other than an option to disable that status display). Bill There are 2 Replies. #: 16676 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-92 02:51:42 Sb: #16673-#lha and pause Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Right, the status line get's written thusly: filename - ................ Then LHa writes a CR without a LF and writes the filename again, filename - o............... ^ The cursor just stays at the current 'o' till the file is decoded, then writes another CR, clears to 'o's and tells you it's been melted. filename - Melted So, you have 3 CR's for every file extracted. So, It'll pause after 1/3 screen cause SCF has gotton a full screen of CR's. - Mike - I don't have a patch for it, but the sources are here. There is 1 Reply. #: 16685 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-92 14:07:44 Sb: #16676-lha and pause Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Thank for the info Mike. Looks like the best bet is to turn off the pause when using Lha. *- Steve -* #: 16684 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-92 14:07:41 Sb: #16673-#lha and pause Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Yeah ... I figured it had something to do with a CR/LF issue ... just didn't know where to start looking in the source. Looks as if the fastest solution would be a tmode nopause! *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16698 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-92 16:17:56 Sb: #16684-#lha and pause Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Why have pause turned on at all? I know you might want people dialing it to have pause enabled so you can set it on in the terminal descriptors, but you can turn it off for all the window descriptors. The 'more' utility is better anyway since you can backup and just. You might want to try using 'less' from the TOPS distribution. It has all that more has only more (or less). ( grin) Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16706 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-92 05:34:37 Sb: #16698-lha and pause Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Having pause turned on is just a habit I've gotten into. I probabbly should just turn 'em all off and leave it at that. *- Steve -* #: 16653 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Oct-92 17:34:25 Sb: #16644-OSK Login Shell ?? Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Have a look at the code in sysgo.ar which is here in lib 12. It starts up the original shell and I not some comments in the source about special things to do a startup shell. Let us know the secret if you figure it out. #: 16696 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-92 15:44:46 Sb: #16644-#OSK Login Shell ?? Fm: Roy J. Fehlandt 73377,1605 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) The magic required back in the days of V2.2 was as follows: char *argv [2]; argv [0] = "-shell"; argv [1] = NULL; os9exec(oskfork, 1 + argv [0], argv,...); This will do it. When shell sees the leading '-' on it's forked named (passed as it's argv[0]) it will read the .login file. Before the fork, you should already have chd'd to the directory where .login is to be found. Roy There is 1 Reply. #: 16703 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-92 20:46:56 Sb: #16696-OSK Login Shell ?? Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Roy J. Fehlandt 73377,1605 After looking at the sysgo.a file, I sorta figured out the "-" magic. It would be nice if MicroWare documented this. BYW: your method still works for V2.4. (I figured you would need to chd, setuid, etc. before the fork - snarf the info from /dd/sys/password, which is obviously what login does...) Robert #: 16662 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-92 05:05:53 Sb: #MM/1 Sound Utilities Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: 76070,41 (X) Mark, about what you said... now that I've thought about it, you must have got the very first hrecord/hplay - the buffering routine needing fine tuning. Remember the presently SNDDRV only supports a max. of 30720 Hz and only multiples supported by the timer. If you use and adequate buffer size or multiple for hiffplay/hiffrecord one should be able to use their system without noticeable problems. If your drive seeks sufficiently fast then smaller buffers/multiples are ok, else use larger buffers. I've recored up to 15 minutes while working on mplay and compiling. I'm only using a ST296N 1.1 meg/sec, 15 minutes at 20KHz Stereo for 36meg of monophonic sound. I suggest you download the newer hrecpla.lzh fron dl12. I will be releasing the functions I've developed for sound recording as shareware perhaps? Or maybe I should just sell them. I'm getting quite a library... YES I'm going to have to write docs, just so I can live/work with myself! %-) Also, I thought in the quick help I had the correct command line arg setup documented. Try... hrecord -f= -b= -s= you can optionally omit the equal though I support both. All Version 1.01 of the utilites has this corrected! Try the newer stuff out and let me know how it works with slower drives, espically using larger buffers. Stephen There is 1 Reply. #: 16664 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-92 09:57:06 Sb: #16662-#MM/1 Sound Utilities Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 Steve, I did download the lastest utilities you uploaded. What I get is "skipping" during the playback. Now, whether that is due to the record or the playback utility I have no way of knowing. In either case, I suspect it is due to my rather slow hard disk, only about 300KB a sec on writes and about 700KB a sec on reads. I'll try it again with the parameters you gave and see what happens. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16666 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-92 14:10:31 Sb: #16664-MM/1 Sound Utilities Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, Yah, it'll also depend on disk fragmentation. Try copying to a ramdisk and playing from there to see if the skip goes away. kev #: 16667 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-92 19:10:00 Sb: Programmer Available Fm: steve mann 71310,1742 To: All OS9/68K Programmer available. Three years of OS9 experience in imbededded processor development. Experience includes C and Assembler, porting and device driver development. Overall experience: 16 years as software engineer, mostly in imbedded processors; 8085, 8088, and most recently, Motorola 68000. Participated in hardware design and development. Current position is as Software Group Leader with three engineers reporting to me. Available in 1Q-93. Prefer western location, permanent positions only. Please respond to Steve Mann, CIS 71310,1742 Prodigy GPGJ06B or Email to smann@peck.com #: 16699 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-92 16:24:47 Sb: #Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland, 72300,1433 (X) Mike, When can I expect to see a version of Desktop that opens a text file in the editor? Shouldn't bee too much of a hassle I would think. Also, can you add an 'attr' selection to one of the menus to allow changing the file attributes? I'll do the attr utility for you, just have it call 'attr' and not open any screens or other windows. Attr will run in an overlay. Still working on the 'gpr' utility for you. Printing is worked at so it runs in the background. I could set it up so it would call the printing utility of the users choice in case someone has one they like better. What do you think? Of course, they could just rename their favorite printing utility to 'print' and it would work as long as it would take a parameter for the filename and.....naw, too many other options that it would get passed. Forget it (grin). Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 16704 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-92 23:56:05 Sb: #16699-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hmmm. I've thought about it and want to know what you think. Say the first click on a data file enables the open.. option on the files menu. If you select open, it will try to run it as a shell script, if you double click instead it opens the file into the program specified by the environment variable EDITOR. Or would it make more sense the other way around? - Mike - The Attr utils sounds neat. How about gattr to differentiate from the regular attr. Your talking a point-n-click attr right? There are 2 Replies. #: 16707 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-92 10:59:00 Sb: #16704-Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Lemme tag on here and answer a few of your CMAIL questions. Given the choices you've presented regarding the handling of a shell script, I'm more comfortable with the following: Douple clicking infers execution ... so execute the thing. OPEN infers examination .. so fire up the editor and let's take a peek. But! I think Mark's original suggestion is the most elegant. If the execute bit is set, we can presume it to be something that needs to execute ... shell script or application. If it's a read only thing ... then let's fire up the editor and examine the contents. If I, as the operator, need to modify an exisiting shell script, I'd select the file, use 'gattr' and turn off the execute bit(s), then double click the icon to bring it up in the editor. Of course I'm a user (unable user, to use a Delphi term, sheesh!), so what appears to be a no brainer to me may be unobtainable programatically. What do you think? *- Steve -* #: 16709 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-92 16:24:39 Sb: #16704-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, What you might want to do is make up a separate icon for a shell script and put that up when you see a text file that has the execution bit set. Of course, this may make things more dofficult. I don't know how you are doing it now, I'd guess you look for any file with the execution bit set and make that a program and then anything else is a text file. I've been playing with Open Look version 3 on one of the Sun workstations at work. It has a different icon for each file. It must read each and every file to do this thought since it can tell the difference between a "C" source code file and a header file, as well as a postscript file and a normal text file. Pretty slick! Each icon type then gets a different set of parameters for forking and printing. I don't think this will be easy to do for OSK, if at all, but it sure would be nice! To answer your question, like Steve said, if it has the execution bit set, and the first few bytes in the file are not a module header, then make it a shell script, other wise it is a text file. If you double click on a text file, run the editor given in the EDITOR environ variable, or run thhe script if it is not a text file. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16711 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-92 04:10:24 Sb: #16709-Desktop hacks Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, > I've been playing with Open Look version 3 on one of the Sun workstations at > work. It has a different icon for each file. It must read each and every > file to do this thought since it can tell the difference between a "C" > source code file and a header file, as well as a postscript file and a > normal text file. Pretty slick! Each icon type then gets a different set > of parameters for forking and printing. I don't think this will be easy > to do for OSK, if at all, but it sure would be nice! You can do this under OSK. G-WINDOWS has this feature. The file icon shows the name of the file and what type it is; i.e., "C", "ASM", "PROG", "SUBR", "SYS", etc. Since there will be files G-WINDOWS doesn't recognize, you can write your own file recognizer program and add the info to the 'config' file. Sample source code for a file recognizer program is included. Have at it . Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO #: 16705 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-92 23:56:38 Sb: #16699-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) On the gpr util. Should that be brought up by selecting Printer Device? and print be brought up by chooseing print on the files menu? Strike that first option, the name should probably be changed to Printer on the deskmenu. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16708 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-92 16:16:25 Sb: #16705-Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Call 'gpr' when you select "print errrrrr.....opps... Call "gpr" when you select "print" after clicking on a file. I'll try to do some fancy work and determine if the file is a printable file or a binary file and then exit with an error message if it is binary. Setting up the printer port should be a separate utility, like the "port" util in Multi-Vue. All the printing utility will do is allow the user to select some page layout defaults like margins, headers, and such and then call the printing routine passing these settings as command line parameters. The "port" utility should allow the user to setup the device descriptor a la xmode.....turn on/off linefeed, set the printer device, and so forth. The "port" utility should be smart enough to change the fields shown depending upon if it is a serial or paralle port being configured. What do you think? Mark #: 16714 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Oct-92 09:57:18 Sb: #16707-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) OK. I'll see what feels more comfortable here. I only have a problem with someone clicking on an .lzh file or something like that. I'd hate to see what some of the editors would do to the file. |-Q UNIX has several other attr bits that you can look at and there is no real fast way to tell if the file is 8-bit data or 7-bit text. (Could even be 8-bit text). I'd like to avoid slowing down the speed, from the time the user clicks on a directory, till the time the icons get displayed. My guess about the attr function is that I should really build it into DeskTop. I already have the attr byte stored in memory, I just have to add the point-n-click routine to change 'em on the fly and save it back to the file descriptor. Over the weekend I found some fun little 'features' in Desktop. Try this one, open the clock, then go back and open the calender. You get an extra overlay that won't go away. I'm using the 'cal' that came with the TOPS package. It's fixed now, but was giving me fits before. Have you noticed the amount of time IconHacker takes to read a directory? Here I have about 48 Icons in my icon directory. It was taking 18 seconds to read the dir and display it. I changed the way it looks at the files in the cgfx.l and now it takes a little over 2 seconds!! What a difference. I was truly amazed at the speed increase. This reminds me, I have to get some Icons uploaded with AIFs for you guys. - Mike - There are 2 Replies. #: 16720 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Oct-92 20:00:20 Sb: #16714-#Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I can't duplicate your 'open the clock then the cal' problem .. but them my version of Desktop isn't complete yet. No gclock or gcalc. I did enable the TOP calender .. and there in lies the new found trouble. Double click on an icon (I've used sterm and InfoXpress both for this test) to execute a program. Flip back to the Desktop and click on Cal ... All appears right with the world ..except we're missing the mouse message ... and things are hung. Flip back to the program that you brought up via icon and quit. You're alomst dropped to a shell ... Flip back to the Desktop to find the message is now there and thigns function fine on that window. Flip to where your selected program was running to find a dead window. It sounds as if things are going well for your next release version. I hope you'll take a peek at some of the ideas I mentioned in my short letter to you regarding some possible enhancements. You _did_ received the note by now .. jes? Some more that I didn't mention but I think Mark has ... The wastebasket file concept of discarding files. It's alwasy nice to undo something you didn't mean to do. :-) Resizable Shell window from the menu ... makes it a snap to create multiple windows on one screen that we can now our way through. *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16732 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-92 22:00:36 Sb: #16720-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Your wish is my command. :) Resizable shell from the Desk menu installed. As far as the wastebasket goes. When you quit, it will show you the Trash and let you reclaim whatever you want out of it, also you will have the option of emtpying the trash at this point. I still have to work this into desktop, but the idea is ready to be implemented. I sent Mark the latest I've been working on. He can pass it on to you. - Mike - Yes, I got the letter. Thanks. :) There are 3 Replies. #: 16739 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 08:09:24 Sb: #16732-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Got you latest.....still very nice. I tried it in the highest resolution screen and had a clock and a shell running in the same window. If the screen flicker wasn't there, this would be a very usable configuration. A couple observations: When you start the clock and then flip through windows, you get a window with just Desktop on it and then the next window has Desktop AND the clock. This seems to be a problem with software othe people have written too....window flipping can cause you to loose things. Also notice that the mouse can disappear when flipping too. Again, not a fault with your program I think, but rather the window software. Selecting ATTR does nothing than blink up a window. Are you going to add this in or are you waiting for me? I thought you said you would do it. Glcock is rather simple. I know I am being picky, but I would be a little annoyed if I payed money for this and got that simple little clock and no alarm features. I am guessing that this is a simple first version and not the final one. You can't delete a directory from within Desktop. I can make one, bnut errr...but clicking on it jst opens it and I cna't do anything else except GET INFO. Sheeesh...last sentance was a typing disaster! There were some other things I wanted to mention, but can't remember now. I'll let you know after playing with it some more. I'm ***REALLY*** looking forward to the "click on a text file to load into the editor" feature. This will make Desktop something useful instead of a "neat-o whiz-bang" super demo. Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 16743 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 17:17:38 Sb: #16739-#Desktop hacks Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) I don't think you're "losing" things when flipping windows... you're just bringing different ones to the front, in order. I'm changing the mouse-flip tho, so that it only changes screens (thus, the window order will stay the same visually in each screen unless you intentionally change them). kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16747 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 21:04:28 Sb: #16743-#Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Uhh ... Kev .. I've had Desktop completely dissappear while flipping through the windows with both the 3rd mouse button as well as the F9 anf F10 keys. I was able to 'get it back' by specifically using the combination to pull up /term. Something's amiss. Whether it's Desktop or Kwindows I'm not offering an opinion at this time. Too many 'new' toys to play with! :-) There are 2 Replies. #: 16748 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 21:18:12 Sb: #16747-#Desktop hacks Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Too strange :-) Thanks, I'll try to duplicate it happening here. There is 1 Reply. #: 16758 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 10:19:05 Sb: #16748-Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, I apologize for the brevity .... I was running interactively and was an hour past my last 'Be right there, Lisa'. I wonder why she puts up with me! :-) I've not been able to duplicate it at will .... but it's happened often enough that I'm sure it's not just machine related. I'll see if I can find the pattern. *- Steve -* #: 16750 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 00:16:15 Sb: #16747-#Desktop hacks Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Okay, I think I found and fixed the problem with window selection. From the comments in my code, apparently I'd meant to fix it before . Come to think of it, I've had shell windows "go away" sometimes while a forked program had control of that window: One of the requirements for selectability is that some process has selected that path (by default or on purpose) for input. However, sometimes this is difficult to tell, especially (as in this case) if the last user of a device had selected another window. So I added a search of *all* the processes with an open path to a candidate selectable window. (Select is one of the most complicated pieces of the driver, since it has to make decisions based on program and user preferences, as well as assume some defaults... and in our case, work around the lack of a " I really don't want to put any screen savers in it. Plasma is a real cool screen saver too. There is 1 Reply. #: 16777 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 08:13:42 Sb: #16771-Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Well, OK. But I think you are wrong for not putting one in. My opinion. Mark #: 16760 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 10:19:15 Sb: #16751-#Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I, too, see a real need for the user to be able to delete directories. One of my most favorite uses of Multiview was in housekeeping chores. I expect I'll find Desktop very handy to delete files and cleanup directories. To that end, I discovered that you've enable the wastebasket file concept in this last release. Took me a few moments to figure out what you named the trash directory, but a couple of minutes with deD popped up .TRASH. I dropped that hidden directory on /dd and it works like a champ! But ... (you know this was comming ...) In wanting to delete several files, I've discovered a 'feature' of desktop gets in the way. You apparently resort and redisplay the directory from the top each time a file is dropped into the trashcan. This makes for a lot of clicking to get back to where you were in the display so you can continue with the deleting chores. Is there some way to selectively disable the resort/redisplay feature? Or may it shouldn't be done except upon reselecting the directory? Thanks for the graphic utils you sent. I'll post the gif file of desktop directly. What did you use to make the iff file a gif file? *- Steve -* There are 2 Replies. #: 16772 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 00:22:35 Sb: #16760-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) A long time ago, on a proto single-board MM/1, I wrote a little diddy called ciff2gif. That's what I used to convert the IFF snap to GIF. Yeah, I noticed this 'feature' the other night while deleting Icons you guys don't need from the tmp icon dir I had created on /r0. What's going on is this; when you delete an entry, it gets deleted from the internal list in memory, then it will re-display the directory without resorting or rereading the directory. I just wasn't keeping track of where you were in the directory before the delete, so i redisplays from the top. I need to add some other things too, but they will take time. I've been thinking about the double click to bring up the editor thing more. I much prefer an Edit option on the Desk Menu. Another thing I still want to add is a Program screen. This would make it trivial to select a program, then a file and would make the double click edit uneeded. Like before I'll see what's most comfortable here and let you guys play with the results. - Mike - There are 2 Replies. #: 16776 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 08:10:42 Sb: #16772-Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, So a snap is a IFF format file? Could I get hold of your ciff2gif utility? Or perhaps you might want to post it. I feel a few more Desktop screens coming on .... *- Steve -* #: 16778 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 08:19:18 Sb: #16772-Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I hope, by adding an Edit option to a menu, you arn't thinking of leaving out the "click-on-a-file-and-start-the-editor" feature we've been talking about! Mark #: 16774 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 00:22:55 Sb: #16760-Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Yeah, I should call deldir in an overlay on Folders (Dirs). #: 16742 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 16:32:57 Sb: #16732-#Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Good to know the letter arrived! Mark's passed on the latest version to me last night and I see that the resizable shell has been implemented. I'll poke around and see what else is new. On the wastebasket thing ... I do hope you plan on a menu choice of emptying the trash as well. Right now, as you describe it, I'd have to quit desktop before I get that option. THe MM/1 is up non-stop and I've yet to 'quit' the application. With a menu choice, I can empty at will. On another topic ... How about uploading a couple icons for Iconhacker? And when we spoke on the phone you mentioned uploading a pointer editor and a few other 'goodies'. Have you been able to get to this yet? *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16752 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 00:19:43 Sb: #16742-Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Good idea about Empty Trash being a menu option. I'll see how fast I can get to it. I sent you some files in mail, you can pass 'em onto Mark, too. I'll get those Icons/AIFs together right now. Look for 'em if you see this message. I think it's time to release Icon Hacker to the GP too. - Mike - #: 16803 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Oct-92 05:18:07 Sb: #16732-#Desktop hacks Fm: Eric Crichlow 71051,3516 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, First I tell you that proportionally spaced and positioned scroll bars are the way to go about three years ago, and you just now get around to implementing it. Then I tell you a few months ago that we need a movable resizable shell for the windowing system, which I did a little (very little) work on, (never did get it quite right,) and now you write that too. You're starting to come around a little quicker, but you really should start listening to me in a more timely manner. ;-) On a side note, Chet and I are working on new icon and clipboard standards. I'll fire you off a copy when we have something concrete. Your input is welcome. It would be nice if we could all be in agreement on this. ..Eric... There is 1 Reply. #: 16816 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Oct-92 00:14:44 Sb: #16803-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Eric Crichlow 71051,3516 (X) HAHAHAHA. Yeah, you've been way ahead of me on what we should have for OSK. I just seem to get around to putting it in first. |-} I'd love to see what you come up with for a clipboard standard. And your ICON standard too. Thanks, - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16883 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 06:06:32 Sb: #16816-Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Another thought on Desktop. Can you change GifShow to show the GIF file in the current window? Reason is, when clicking on a GIF file from within Desktop, GifShow opens up two windows. If you want to look at several of them, you eventually run out of window descriptors and it trashes one or more of the already opened windows. Mark #: 16744 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 17:47:19 Sb: #16714-#Desktop hacks Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Speaking of file attributes, etc. One of the problems with retrofitting windows/gui to OS-9, is that it was created before such things became popular. Other systems, which were designed to have desktops and often to run on only one type of hardware, have file systems (and file formats, not our text-oriented Unix style) more oriented towards windowing. So... what if we were to hack RBF to add some more information? I haven't really put much (any! :-) thought into this yet, but it would seem quite practical for hard disks at least. For instance: comment files, optional file type, icon file link, default application to run, etc. This is all just a passing thought, but I figured the resulting comments (and screaming :-) could be instructive. It just seems so crude for programs to have to open the disk raw in order to get optional info in a timely manner. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16753 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 00:19:59 Sb: #16744-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Yeah, I know what you mean. I have to setuid(0) get the info then reset the uid when I grab the file info from disk. This is harmless if you reset it, but if you don't watch out, 'Instant Super-User'. I make damn sure it get's reset before exiting the routine. Extra info would be nice, but program that are not written for the GUI will possibly choke, and we want to avoid that. What would be very, extramely useful would be if uWare had a word for the attr. That way we could tell the difference between bin data and binary files and text. Oh well... - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16754 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 02:17:59 Sb: #16753-Desktop hacks Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) I was really kind of thinking of optional info. For example, you could pull an old Carl Kreider trick and use all that empty space in the "." and ".." directory entries. Say, put an LSN pointer to a file with info on the files. Any new files would be added as desktop came through. Hmm. Never mind on that idea.... you could just do that with a .file you made yourself! That is, when Desktop goes into a directory and doesn't find a precompiled .desktop file with info on all the other files, you create one (or, if a file is new or deleted, update your .desktop file). That way, most of the time that Desktop enters a directory, all the info on the files has already been researched! Result: huge speedup even if you have different icons for basic, C, scripts, etc files. I'm typing this in on-line, but I think you should do this, the more I think about it! The only "catch" would be if someone put a different type of file with the same old name as a previous one. But then, you could just let the user trigger a .desktop update in that case. Well enuf thinking on the fly. Later! - kev #: 16737 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-92 22:01:16 Sb: #16707-Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) OK, I'll doit. I'll make a double click on a file open the file into the editor specified bye the env var EDITOR. Give me a few days, - Mike - #: 16717 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Oct-92 09:58:14 Sb: #16711-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, Doesn't a 'file recognizer' program run on each and every file the GUI encounters slow the desktop way down? Seems to me it would. Or does G-Windows only check it the execution bit(s) are set? Even then it seems to me it would really slow the thing down. Does it? - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16724 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Oct-92 02:39:42 Sb: #16717-Desktop hacks Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Pulling up a directory using DESKTOP isn't exactly a 'speedy Gonzoles'. Much of the speed depends upon whether DESKTOP can recognize what the file is from its extension. If there is no extension, it will read the file's header. Once a directory has been read, the information is there 'permanently' - until either DESKTOP is exited or that window is killed. Of course, the window can be hibernated to help reduce screen clutter. DESKTOP reads a script file to determine what program to call, if any, when a file is selected. I'm appending a typical configuration file. Times to read a directory the first time are - CMDS, all binaries, 406 files, 50 seconds a C directory with mostly .c files, a few .h files and a makefile, 44 files, 4 seconds DESKTOP does not use dedicated file icons. Instead, it has several different icons for directories, text files, images, .c, .r .a files, programs, etc. The type of file is listed in the center of the icon and the file name at the bottom. If the file type can't be identified, the icon is filled with 0s and 1s. Double clicking the icon will either execute the program or call the program the file type calls for in accordance with the configuration file. Trying to execute an unidentified file results in an error (as to be expected). In addition to displaying icons, the user may elect to have the directory in a text mode. This is very similar to the display obtained from 'dir -e' with the type of file, if recognized, added. Typical DESKTOP configuration file - shell shell * * Devices * /h0 hard /d0 floppy /r0 ram /h0\GWINDOWS/DESKTOP/BUCKET bucket * * * File Types * :text umacs @ <>>>% :binary :module :rof rdump @ <>>>% :prog @ <>>>% :subr :mult :data :trap :sys :fman :drvr :desc :make make -f=@ ^100 <>>>% :script @ >>>% :c umacs @ <>>>% :asm umacs @ <>>>% :font :qfonts :gadget :recognizer :image viewimage @ <>>>% :window wedit @ <>>>% Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO #: 16716 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Oct-92 09:58:06 Sb: #16709-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Sounds like Open Look 3 has file types down pat. It would take some doing under OSK tho. Right now it looks at the fd_att byte to determine what kind of file it is. Then it checks to see if the extention matches an AIF. So the file is never opened. This makes it real fast. I'd imagine it would slow to a crawl if DeskTop check for a module header on every file with an exec bit set, especially if you click on the CMDS dir. ;) OTOH, I really only need to check the file if it's double clicked on, right? At that point I could do some checking of the file type. Lemme play with this and I'll see what I can come up with. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16718 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Oct-92 10:03:10 Sb: #16716-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I would guess that if you can taylor the execution of a file at run time depending upon if the module header is there, that would make it better. DO you need to do that though? If you just execute the file a binary and a shell script would be the same? Hmmm...thinking about it more, you would have to run a shell script by forking shell first and a binary by just forking the binary file. You would need to know what it was I guess. BTW: you sent something to me via Internet mail. Looked like a lha file that was not uuencoded. Needless to say, I could not extract it from the CIS mail. Can you do it again, whatever it was? Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16733 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-92 22:00:46 Sb: #16718-Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) I resent the files to ya. You can pass 'em onto Steve also. - Mike - #: 16715 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Oct-92 09:57:57 Sb: #16708-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Ah, I was thinking along the lines of 2 printer utilities, one for page layout and one to do the actual printing. My mistake. So GPr will do both, right? Would it be better to have 2 seperate utils? GPr and 'print' and have DeskTop pass the parms to print? Would the user have to set up the page everytime? Yeah, I have my own xmode util done. Just have to make it graphical. :) As I told Steve, I should build the attr thing right into desktop as I already have the fd_att byte in memory. Almost forgot, how can you tell the diffence between a serial or parallel port? They look the same to xmode. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16721 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Oct-92 19:40:31 Sb: #16715-#Desktop hacks Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Butting in on the desktop thread... why not have a "master aif/icon" file in each directory which lists all the relevant information about the files. If a file is not in the "master file", then you could check headers, etc. You could have a "create master file" program to automate things a bit. There are 2 Replies. #: 16734 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-92 22:00:55 Sb: #16721-Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Thanks for the suggestion. What I have been thinking about is a startup directory filled with you usual AIFs. That would mean you don't have to have AIFs scattered about your disks. Also it would keep from adding overhead every time you encounter a new directory. Know what I mean? - Mike = #: 16735 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-92 22:01:01 Sb: #16721-Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Thanks for the info. Looks like Steve did a good job covering all the bases. - Mike - #: 16719 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Oct-92 16:20:38 Sb: #16642-Ultra-C Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: William F. McGill/CA 73177,3433 The chief advantage I would say that an ANSI C compiler will allow much easier code ports from other sources, which would hopefully be ANSI compliant. Much of the UNIX related work would be ported over more easily. As for as execution or size improvements, one has to try it to see I guess. We will be upgrading to it at work, including the new required srcdbg. So here's hoping ... #: 16749 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 22:16:15 Sb: #16642-Ultra-C Fm: Graham Ullrich/C.B.,CO 76506,2037 To: William F. McGill/CA 73177,3433 Bill, The nice feature of ANSI-compliant compilers is function parameter type checking at compile time. That is, the compiler detects errors where you call a function with a particular argument type, but the function is defined with a different argument type. For example: int foobar( int param ); main() { unsigned int wrong_type; foobar( wrong_type ); /* this would be caught by the compiler */ } Although you may have no difficulty remembering parameter types, new programmers may inadvertently use the wrong type, or you may change function names, etc. I've found this alone helps me immensely. Just another thing I don't have to worry about. Microware is claiming about 50% to 70% executable execution speed increase for Ultra C. Lots of function names have changed, which can be handled by macro #defines. Graham #: 16725 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Oct-92 14:13:21 Sb: #Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all Those of you with OSK machine code knowledge, I could sure use some of your help. I have been trying to create an icon to use with Gwindows. The code is simple, if long, and I am getting an error when I try to compile it. Here's the code: use /h0/defs/oskdefs.d Edition equ 1 Typ_Lang equ (Data<<8)+Objt Attr_Rev equ (ReEnt<<8) +0 psect substart_a,Typ_Lang,Attr_Rev,Edition,0,0 flags dc.l %0000000000000011 busy_icon dc.w %1111111111111111 etc,etc....rest being dc.w's ends I "r68 icon.a -o=icon.r" just fine with no problems. But when I "l68 -r icon.r -o=icon" I get the following error: code size = 1012 (0x3F4) bytes minimum of 256 bytes requred for data area I, unfortunately, know very little about machine code, and thusly, how to fix this error. I suspect it is a simple fix, but I am totally lost. Anyone can offer any help here?? Thanks!! jim There are 3 Replies. #: 16745 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 17:47:36 Sb: #16725-#Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, Hmm. I can't reproduce the problem. Can you email that particular source (or something which produces the same result)? At first I thought, aha, the linker wants some stack memory declared in the module. But then I saw that this was just a data module. So it makes no sense for you to get such an error. Weird. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16756 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 08:43:43 Sb: #16745-Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Thanks, Kevin....will email you the program (it's relatively short).... maybe you can figure out what I'd get a Data error.... jim #: 16763 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 12:42:10 Sb: #16725-#Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, My guess is that either the linker won't output a "raw" binary data module, (only a program module~r) but the manual doesn't say so, or that there's a bug in the linker. I tested this with one of my data modules (I don't normally use use -r, but tried it) and got the same results, so its not anything you're doing. -Bill- There is 1 Reply. #: 16790 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Oct-92 07:46:28 Sb: #16763-Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) ~ The message that you are getting is not an error. It is telling you haw large the raw file is. The message about data is to inform you that the default data space is 256 bytes. If you dont specify data space you always get 256 bytes for your stack. you can ignore the message. your file has been linked just fine. Kevin Pease #: 16764 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 14:54:52 Sb: #16725-#Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, I didn't notice before that you were putting a "-r" option on the link. Why is that? Are G-Windows icons data modules? If so, leave out the "-r". Do they give a sample icon source? It feels like there should be an entry point (actually, pointer to data start) in the header as well: psect myicon,Typ_Lang,Attr_Rev,Edition,0,DataStart and then a DataStart label just before the "flags", maybe. (?) kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16770 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 22:26:37 Sb: #16764-#Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin: I am following the instructions in the book. They read: "r68 icon.a -o=icon.r" and then "l68 -r icon.r -o=shell" I haven't the slightest idea of why I call the -r option, as I know abosultely nothing about machine code. As you can tell from the source I sent you, 99% of the program are dc.w's.....something >I< (in my primitive unknowledgable m.l. state), can deal with. (g) Should I remove the -r option from l68???? Thanks! jim There is 1 Reply. #: 16775 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 03:25:37 Sb: #16770-#Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim - I have no icons in my GW demo disk set, so I don't know if they're data modules or just raw code. If raw (non-PIC) code (as with -r option), it makes no sense to wrap it in a data module. (change "code" to "data" in that sentence) Yah, try without the -r option. What can it hurt? There are 2 Replies. #: 16780 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 20:16:42 Sb: #16775-Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Righto, Kevin -- won't hurt a thing....will get back with you. Thanks for the info jim #: 16783 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Oct-92 00:00:30 Sb: #16775-#Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) OK, Kevin.....tried compiling without the -r option, and it worked. Still can't get the darn thing to work, but have left a couple of messages to Steve Adams on Delphi and another user said he got it to work....(???) Thanks for your help....btw.....I understand the GWindows Demo Program is supposed to be fully featured, except that it has an auto timeout after 45 (??) minutes, so the File Recognizers that I wrote and put in DL12 should work....please let me know if they do.... jim There is 1 Reply. #: 16791 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Oct-92 07:46:56 Sb: #16783-Help with OSK M.L. Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) ~ Jim read my reply to message 16763. t has information about your question. The message that you got was not an error message. Kevin Pease #: 16740 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 09:05:09 Sb: GWindows Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all Anyone here usisng Gwindows? If so, have you had any luck in getting the File Recognizer or the Icon Examples to work properly??? jim #: 16741 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-92 16:21:39 Sb: GWindows Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all For those who might be interested in what GWindows looks like on the Tomcat70 (and, I'm sure on the System IV), I've just placed, in DL12, an ar file that has a GIF picture of my GWindows Window, and a few of the icons that are available in GWindows to describe files. There's a couple of readme's, too in there. Hope you enjoy.... jim #: 16761 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 10:45:55 Sb: #Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) I just melted the ICON file. You have _way_ toooooooooo much free time on your hands! :-) They look fantastic! Just a suggestion on the pull down Shell option from within Desktop: What about having a border around the window that's created just to set it off from what it's overlaying. Also ... can the hot spots be enabled so these windows can be manipulated around the screen? *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16773 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 00:22:46 Sb: #16761-Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Good ideas. The option should be there for sure. Thanks for the kudos on the Icons. Grab any Mags with icons in 'em an you can have a ball. The best have been from MACazine and Windows Mag. Nothing wrong with borrowing a few Icons. #: 16766 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 18:48:52 Sb: urgent! (1 of 2) Fm: PaulSeniura 76476,464 To: all I found the following text file over in the Atari SIGs. Does anyone know how I can buy this package from a distributor in the U.S.? I did not write this. Please respond to me in e-mail (76476,464). -- Thx, Paul Seniura. *** An alternate operating system for the AtariST or MegaST for the serious home computer user or hobbiest has just been released at an affordable price. It is so good that some people may choose to buy a ST for the purpose of running this system. Many of us have dreamed of being able to afford a UNIX machine someday and this may be the opportunity to have some of the benefits of UNIX while operating on a much smaller platform. On my desk is a press release dated September 7th, 1992 from CUMANA, Ltd. Pines Trading Estate Broad Street, Guildford, Surrey, GU3 3BH., England. Tel:(0483)503121 Telex:859380 Fax No. 503326. This press information reveals slashed pricing for the personal user of OS-9/68000 upgrade version. The new package not only includes the professional edition of OS-9 but also contains a word processor with mailmerge and spell-checking, a spreadsheet, a C compiler, a basic compiler, a screen editor and an assembler with debugger and linker. A complete set of manuals weighing approximately 8Kg are also a part of this package. The home user may never use parts of the manuals, but one cannot tell what references he/she may desire in the future so the entire set is shipped. Allow me to paraphrase a little from my older version manual: The author calling OS-9 a sophisticated operating system says that it is specially designed to make its powerful features easy to use, even by persons with limited technical knowledge (of which I am one). OS-9 is a multitasking and multiuser operating system which means that many programs can be running at the same time and if desired can be used by more than one operator at the same time. OS-9 is compatible with UNIX at the C language source code level. [...more...] #: 16767 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 18:51:57 Sb: urgent! (2 of 3) Fm: PaulSeniura 76476,464 To: all [...continued...] However, OS-9 is written in assembly language and being smaller than UNIX, it is faster than UNIX and offers the user more performance. Now from the press release: OS-9 is said to be the only major commercial operating system that has built-in, easy-to-use functions to support modular programming techniques. All routines are independent of Atari's firmware and no Atari ROM routines are used. From the CUMANA brochure: A single-sided boot disk can be supplied but one double-sided drive will be necessary to run the package. Both the monochrome and the color monitors are supported. All ports including the MIDI ports are supported with this version of OS-9. The Atari hard drive is supported. Totally Atari compatible drives probably are OS-9 compatible but cannot be individually supported. Caching is incorportated in the floppy disk driver and multi-sector "read and write" is implemented in the hard disk driver as an alternate to caching to ensure data integrity. And now the GOOD stuff: The commercial price of around $900 US will no longer apply to the individual home computer user. CUMANA offers their private purchaser package at about $179.00 US plus shipping. The shipping is rather expensive for a five day delivery at $81.00 US; however, if 10 Atari users group together (such as a club) then the individual shipping costs will be reduced. To send 10 packages, the shipment cost is about $219 air freight. Anyone wishing to become an agent for CUMANA in the USA should contact the Managing Director, Mr. John Simnett. The marketing manager is Mr. Steve Dickenson and Richenda Wood handles public relations. [...more...] #: 16768 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-92 18:52:33 Sb: urgent! (3 of 3) Fm: PaulSeniura 76476,464 To: all [...continued...] My only interest in submitting this information is one of an OS-9 hobbiest. I have no financial connections with CUMANA or any OS-9 or Atari vendor. My information should not be considered as binding on anyone. Each interested party should make their own contacts for full verification. I regret having to write this last paragraph, but I have been mis-understood in the past as to my motivations. Hoping to hear from many new Atari OS-9ers in the near future. PhxKen on Delphi Ken/Az on Fido, OS-9 ECHO Farrell Kenimer *** If you know about this, please respond to 76476,464 in e-mail, please! -- Thx, Paul Seniura. #: 16781 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 23:11:26 Sb: #16459-Who Used OS/9-68K? Fm: steve mann 70740,741 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) We make 68000 based microwave test equipment. I have the Microware Who's Who list, but you can't tell what they make from their names. #: 16782 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-92 23:13:26 Sb: #16464-Who Used OS/9-68K? Fm: steve mann 70740,741 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Thanks, that sounds interesting. We make a 68000 based microwave signal source for antenna and component testing. #: 16793 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Oct-92 10:39:11 Sb: #Snapit Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland, 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Tried the version of Snapit you uploaded (or maybe you Emailed to Steve). Anyway, can't get it to take a good picture of a window. Tried to get a snapshot of the Desktop screen and then view it with iffshow. got a "representation" of the Desktop screen but only in black and white and with about 70% of the screen data missing. Am I doing something wrong or is iffshow the problem? Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16794 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Oct-92 11:04:13 Sb: #16793-Snapit Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Well, you need to tell SnapIt the proper screen type. I need to U/L ciff2gif so you can convert those snaps to GIF. IFFShow was not very robust. - Mike - #: 16807 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Oct-92 07:45:50 Sb: #Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, With Kev giving me the TC70's windwoing stuff, Barry Bond and I took a swipe at seeing what Desktop would do on his TC70. Comes up and all the features work (pop ups, pull downs, colors, sizes etc) but ... For some reason it's not 'seeing' the proper information on files and directories. Consequently, directories are being shown as 'paper' icons, executables aren't, and some files are directories. Attempting to see what 'get info' says about one of the errant icons, we saw completly reasonable, but totally invalid data as to attr's, ownership (os9boot was owned by user 8!) dates and sizes. Needless to say, we didn't do anything that might have written to disk. Any idea what's happening? Could it have anything to do with the fact that Frank's still shipping OSK 2.3? *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16814 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Oct-92 00:14:27 Sb: #16807-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Oh, yeah. That's the problem alright. 2.4 uses a sector size byte on LSN 0 that when multiplied by 256 gives the sector size. I need to add a check that if the byte isn't set it assumes 256 byte sectors. 2.3 did not use this byte but set it to 0. My fault. I'll fix that. You can have Barry set byte $68 of LSN 0 to 1 with DED and see if it works properly. I'll change my directory routines to check if it's set to zero too. Thanks, - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 16826 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Oct-92 18:19:42 Sb: #16814-#Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, So far as setting that byte to 1 ... just how do you go about it? I tried to used dEd on @/r0 (wanted to test the theory on something that I could screw up ... especially since I was planning on using the raw mode), but I kept getting LSN0 for /dd. Infact, even when I attempted the same thing on the floppy (@/d0) I get What am I doing wrong? *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16827 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Oct-92 19:50:29 Sb: #16826-#Desktop hacks Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve - the "@" should be after the device name: "/r0@" Putting it beforehand would open the current working directory device as raw. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 16830 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Nov-92 05:33:30 Sb: #16827-Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Geez ... Thanks for the pointer, Kev! *- Steve -* #: 16811 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Oct-92 09:40:41 Sb: #More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland, 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Playing with Desktop some more. Looking better and better as I setup my file system with the right AIFs and icons, and get all the files renamed so the icons will show up. Noticed a couple interesting "features". I load a couple fonts at startup to replace the rather anemic looking standard MM/1 font. These fonts are loaded into group c8, buffer 01 and 02. From what I understand, this is the same buffer and group as the two standard screen fonts. Now, the font shows up in Desktop, and if I click on a text file or a C source or something like that that calls the editor, the font is displayed there. But, if I click on the Shell, it pops up a shell window with the sickly looking standard font! Bummer! I don't like that! (grin). Also, Sometimes a window that I created by clicking on something, like Shell or Fontasee, or such, gets stuck when I exit it. By stuck, I mean clicking the right mouse button to cycle through the windows shows the stuck one, and there is no way to unstick it and make it go away. This may be a windows problem, similar to the disappearing window problem Steve and I mentioned already. Another thing, can you make the Shell to call a settable parameter? I really hate the standard shell and would rather use Smersh instead. Other users might want to use csh or wven Microwares new Mshell. Perhaps you can set it in the config file. More to come soon. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16815 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Oct-92 00:14:35 Sb: #16811-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) I'll check into you loosing your fonts. BTW 01 is the text font 03 is the gfx font. It contains the window control icons + the 6 x 6 font I use for menus. I fixed the 'stuck window' problem. I was doing a wait during the overlay desk menu options when it wasn't needed. ANyway, it's fixed. I'm way ahead of you on the 'settable shell'. It already uses the env var SHELL to determine what shell to fork. :) - Mike - There are 3 Replies. #: 16817 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Oct-92 09:38:53 Sb: #16815-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, So the version I have now looks for the environment variable 'SHELL'? Good! Yes, I remember about the 03 buffer being used for the special characters you have in Desktop. That's why I only replace the 01 and 02 fonts. Strange that it should only happen when it forks a shell. Also, when I do fork a shell into another window, a strange character appears in the lower right of the screen. It goes away when the screen is cleared though. Just remembered, if I fork a shell on the Desktop window, it uses the correct (replacement) font. Oh, what about this. If I'm in a directory and I make a new file there with the editor or something, I have to move out of the dir and then come back in before the file shows up. Also, why have a parameter in the AIF for the border color if dwset ignores it? It would be nice if dwset set the border so we arn't stuck with black all the time. Bummer. Lost my cursor last night too.....no pointer, no click-right-button-to-move-through-windows, dead. Can't remember how it happened though. Also, if I fork an application in a new window, then go back to Desktop and list a file so that the overlay is open, then go back to the application on the other window and exit it, it remains stuck in memory the majority of the time. Steve Wegert found you have to go and deiniz that window to get it to go away. Speaking of that, I startup my MM/1 with only the term window active, then start Desktop in it. When I fork an application into another window, it starts at /w4, not /w1 as you would expect. Why? Another bug in windio? Lots of things to take care of here it looks like. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16829 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Oct-92 23:49:49 Sb: #16817-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hmmm. I must have inadvertently fixed the font thing. Cause it works correctly here. The Menus on desktop even use the new font. To reread the current directory hit '.'. That will reread '.' ;-) The character you see when you open a window is from setting the border color to something other than black. Use 0 as the border and you'll be fine. I left the border option in in case Kev one day decides to support border on the DWSet. The dead window 'bug' is fixed now too. I just had to que up the return from wait if it wasn't the pid returned from the command. (Clear as mud, right!) Your last interesting little tidbit leads me to believe your having a problem with your windows 1 thru 4. It worksjust fine here. Have you inized any of your /wX descriptors? Maybe you have the window numbers set wrong in your descriptors or have the older /wX's that don't use wcf? - Mike - There are 3 Replies. #: 16843 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 05:41:29 Sb: #16829-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Yeah, I was inizing /w1 and /w2 in startup. That should fix that. I'll let you know if it doesn't. Need to press '.' to re-read the directory? A little kludgy, but I guess it is better than nothing. When can Steve and I see the latest? You can upload it anywhere and mark it for Steve and it won't appear in the forums. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16878 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 02:00:01 Sb: #16843-More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) I sent Steve a 'test' version. It has some of the features I've been meaning to add, minus one. I added a default AIF directory that is read on startup this morning. It wil look for the env var HOME and search for a dir called AIFS in your HOME dir, if no HOME env var is found it will search for /DD/AIFS as the default AIF path to load aifs from on startup. Now to add the durn program groups option.... - Mike - #: 16844 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 05:41:36 Sb: #16829-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Some more info. Found out that if you have the AIF border color number set to '2', it forks that application in a window with the "old" style font and not my font. Change that to a zero, and it now forks with the correct font. Weird. Also, did you write a different version of Fstat to show the "Get Info" data? If so, why not let me do a version for you that will produce some more data? I can get it to show the user name instead of just the numbers, and also some nice check boxes for the attributes instead of the standard attr string. If you can send me the code you did for the attribute setting util, I'll make it look like that. More to come! Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16879 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 02:00:09 Sb: #16844-More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Get the latest version from Steve. And let me know what you think about the Attr stuff. (It's called Permissions in the Files menu) - Mike - #: 16932 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Nov-92 05:36:38 Sb: #16829-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, A couple more items. Using the latest Desktop and sometimes having a problem with flipping between windows. Usually only happens when I fork a shell from the Shell icon, and then I can't use the mouse button or the F9-F10 keys to flip around. Only the shift F1-F8 work. It will do this, then all of a sudden it starts working fine again. Weird. I thought you said you read the AIFs now when Desktop starts up? I have them all in the directory /dd/aifs like you said and nothing happens. Also, is the edit menu item supposed to fork the editor? It doesn't. I now you love to hear all these things, but we're just trying to help you get a solid product out. You didn't reply yet on the documents offer I made. You still thinking about it? Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 16940 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Nov-92 22:16:21 Sb: #16932-More Desktop Stuff Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) > I thought you said you read the AIFs now when Desktop starts up? I have them > all in the directory /dd/aifs like you said and nothing happens. Also, is the > edit menu item supposed to fork the editor? It doesn't. > I made the same assumption after reading his message. Read it again and you'll see that he mentions reading the AIF directory as an addition he made after uploading this version of Desktop. I'm betting we'll see it in the next release. *- Steve -* #: 16957 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Nov-92 09:18:51 Sb: #16932-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) > A couple more items. Using the latest Desktop and sometimes having a problem > with flipping between windows. Usually only happens when I fork a shell from > the Shell icon, and then I can't use the mouse button or the F9-F10 keys to > flip around. Only the shift F1-F8 work. It will do this, then all of a > sudden it starts working fine again. Weird. > It's interesting to note that when the mouse gets lost like this, the keyboard mouse is still functional. Very weird. *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16958 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Nov-92 09:43:37 Sb: #16957-More Desktop Stuff Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) >> the Shell icon, and then I can't use the mouse button or the F9-F10 keys to >> flip around. Only the shift F1-F8 work. It will do this, then all of a >> sudden it starts working fine again. Weird. > It's interesting to note that when the mouse gets lost like this, the keyboard > mouse is still functional. That seems to point to the mouse driver, rather than Desktop. BTW, which version of windio are you using? I've just nabbed version 48 off of Ocean BBS. -Bill- #: 16823 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Oct-92 10:17:55 Sb: #16815-More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Found something else....if there is a file called, let's say, 'test.txt' in the trash and you try to delete another file with the same name, it error out with a 218 error. I know this is correct for OS-9, but maybe you should allow the user to select to overwrite the file or not. More to come. Mark #: 16831 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Nov-92 05:43:04 Sb: #16815-More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, A few more things about Desktop. Apparently, you use the SHELL environment variable to determine what shell to fork, but only for executing scripts. This is good, but I'd also like to see it used for forking an interactive shell, or even better, two different variables, one for an interactive shell and one for running shell scripts. That way, I could use csh and more advanced scripts yet still have the interactive shell I want. Also, found out that the current version of Desktop only works with windio version 46. More exactly, I tried it with version 38 and 46 and it didn't work with 38. Didn't try it with 42 though. We also need a menu entry for FREE. Too much of a pain to fork a shell just to see how much space there is on a disk. Also, for the OPEN menu item, you could make it really slick by opening an executable file in dEd and anything else in the EDITOR defined by that shell variable. How about allowing the user to set the time with Gclock? Can you use the middle mouse to allow selection of several files at a time for copying or deleting? Also, when doing a copy of one or more files, why not do it like Open Look. Select the file(s) and click on copy. Instead of asking for a new path or filename, put up a message for a couple seconds that says to move to the directory desired and then select "Put" or "Paste" from another menu, maybe the EDIT menu. The copy the files to that directory. If the user selects the same directory where the file(s) is(are), then make a copy of them but give the file(s) the same name with an extenstion of ".NEW" or ".COPY". This will make it easier, no need to type in anything, but still not require dragging the icon. More to come (I guess you are getting tired of my suggestions). Mark #: 16822 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Oct-92 01:08:08 Sb: Kix\30 Fm: David George 72240,134 To: 70310,317 (X) Regarding my previous problem booting up my Kix\30. I have determined that it is booting up. I can access the floppy and type commands and hear the drive moving. I have tried two terminals and I have a breakout box on the serial port. I see pin 2 light when I press keys, but pin 3 does not do anything. I have tried swapping pins 2 and 3. Any ideas? David George 72240,134 #: 16833 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Nov-92 12:10:34 Sb: #sback Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all If anyone has tried my sback program, I'd appreciate some feedback. I'm having a terrible time with it (the fact that I wrote it just makes it all the more frustrating). Here's the problem: If I use the -f flag to format the disks I end up with the following: 1. after the backup I can read/write to the new disk, 2. however, I can't access the original disk anymore. Chd, etc all report an error. This applies to any other "normal" disk. 3. If I reboot I can read "normal" disks again. However, the backup disk is now unreadable. 4. I've not been able to do anything to enable the reading of the "backup" disk. As a test, I used DED to copy LSN0 of a "backup" disk to a temp file. Then I rebooted and did the same for the original disk... Doing a CMP on the two files shows that LSN0 is identical on the two disks. If I pre-format the backup disk (and don't use the -f option) all works fine. In trying to get this to work I've modified SBACK so that no files are open when doing the format and spent a lot of time looking for erratic pointers... no luck. Anyone out there have any bright (or not-so-bright) ideas???? There is 1 Reply. #: 16882 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 06:06:26 Sb: #16833-#sback Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Make sure you are using the correct format utility. By mistake, the OSK 2.3 format was shipped with many MM/1s. It can mess up your disks like that. The correct OSK 2.4 version should have a CRC of $91371D. This should be in ROM. You also might want to try whatever version is in your commands directory to see if it makes any difference. Also, check you drivers and descriptors. Post the CRCs here so we can look them over. Come to think of it, didn't you post them once here before because of other disk problems? Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 16892 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 07:53:17 Sb: #16882-#sback Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, AN ident of my format in rom nets the same CRC as yours ...but the one in the CMDS dir is different ...tho that same edition number. That CRC is 4D1A85. Is this the 2.3 format? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 16902 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 15:31:03 Sb: #16892-sback Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I believe it is, but can't remember for sure now. I know that SOME of the early machines got the wrong format utility and it caused problems. Mine is different as is yours. Lovely isn't it (grin). Mark #: 16927 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Nov-92 20:33:18 Sb: #16882-#sback Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Checked the crc of format; I've got the right one in the ROMs. I've got another one, format.2.3, in my cmds dir, but I don't think it ever gets accessed. Yes, I've had my share of weirdness with floppies. The various drivers, etc. have been checked out and verified as "the latest". Someone suggested a cable problem, but I made up a new one awhile ago and that's not made a difference. I have ordered a 2nd drive (gosh, haven't those prices gone down...) and will see if that changes anything. One other strangeness I've found is that if I os9gen a new disk the process fails when os9gen attempts to rename "tempboot" to "os9boot". However, if I include an iniz statement in startup, os9gen works fine. Don't know if this is normal or not, or if it's related to the other problem. But it does seem strange that after formatting a new disk it can be read (but others can't) until resetting the system at which point the reverse is true. There is 1 Reply. #: 16944 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Nov-92 05:40:57 Sb: #16927-sback Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Do you iniz your floppy devices at bootup? If not, then you should. That may clear up your problems. Mark #: 16835 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Nov-92 13:31:41 Sb: Desktop hacks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: [F] Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, Now that I've figured out how to deal with raw devices, changing the value at offset $68 does change the results Desktop displays. However (and you knew this was coming), it still shows inaccurate data. Or, Barry's system has been running for 157 years ... and most files are owned by User 4. Thoughts? Steve *- Steve -* #: 16837 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Nov-92 22:07:47 Sb: #network stuff Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kev 76703,4227 (X) Kev, Barry Bond and I have been piddling with the networks stuff Larry passed on to me. Neat stuff! First off all ... lemme ask (rather sheepishly) is it possible to run this over a modem? Serial is serial ... right? By telling the modem to ignore both CD and DTR, we were able to establish a link between the two computers. This done, I exited the termial program on /t0 and made sure /t0 was not iniz'd. Software installed nicely on both systems and the network appeared to be up. Doing a ndir -a on the MM/1 shows the MM/1 active, but a -TC70. The same command on the TC70 shows it to be active, but a -MM1. There also seems to be a difference in each system in the way it is operating. The TC70 appears to be 'polling' on a regular basis ( as told by watching the modem lights). The MM1 does not. Another difference is that issuing a command on the MM/1 nets an almost immediate 'blip' of data being sent out the serial port, while there is no immediate 'blip' on the TC70 in response to a command. Something else noticed was that n6870 isn't a system state process as other drivers. Is this significant? Also, when taking the network down with a nmon -d, the data pointer is left at $0000000. This makes it impossible to deiniz n0 and remove it from memory. Trying to do so will hang the machine. Any thoughts? Are we just out of our minds to attempt this over the phone? *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16839 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 01:17:14 Sb: #16837-#network stuff Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Hmmmm. Seems like it should work. Of course, y'all need to set your net descriptors to use modem baud rates instead of the default 19.2Kbaud :) If you don't have a moded file entry, just modify the byte at offset $5D in the descriptors. Currently it's set to $0F (19200 baud). You'll have to look up in the manual and see what other baud rate values are for 1200, 2400 or whatever. It also sounds like Barry has echo on in his modem or something? One way to test things is to do an "ndir -a" on one side, while the other guy is doing a "dump /n0/w7. PPS: Error recovery ain't great. Don't overload by doing too much at a time. You'll simply have to reset your machines and restart if you do :-( There are 2 Replies. #: 16871 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 21:41:20 Sb: #16839-network stuff Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, We hashed around the idea of our problems being related to a baud rate mismatch .. but succeeded in talking ourselves out of it. Now, in the morning light, it does make sense. We're both using high speed v.32/v.42 modems and get a 12000 baud CONNECT, but I'll bet we need to set the baud to 9600. Moded entries we gots. Thanks for the suggestion on checking the data. We sort of had that happen at one point during the evening. I had taken my side of the net down and fired up sterm to make an adjustment the modem. With Barry's side 'polling' like it was, I soon had stuff coming on the screen. Couldn't read it, but it did seem to have a pattern and did remind me of a terminal baud rate mismatch. More playing is in order. No slams were intended on the data pointer comments. We realize this stuff is still in the testing stages. What made it interesting is the symptoms are exactly the same as another situation Barry faces on the TC70. With a tsmon on a serial port, (modem line), line noise will all too often hose the port in the same fashion. Paths disappear from a procs output and the data pointer ends up at $0000000. Any efforts to correct the situation results in a locked machine. So this sounds driver related, jes? *- Steve -* #: 16872 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 21:41:46 Sb: #16839-network stuff Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) I've captured this note and will pass it on the Barry, if and when he gets the TC70 back up. You see .... after all the resetting we did last night, his machine gave up the ghost. All serial lines are responding flaky upon reboot. No text is ever displayed (only numbers and punctuation). What ever hit the system seems to have affected both serial chips as the on board ports as well as his external card ports are demonstrating the same 'feature'. Interesting to note, however, that Kwindows on the console still works as expected. What with all the on going problems Barry's having with Frank and his machine, (i.e. floppies that don't work, no tape drivers, random crashes, buss trap errors, power supply fan shot and the second promised replacement yet to arrive over a month later,) I think we've hit the absolute bottom here. Barry will be on the phone to either Frank working out a suitable deal for the return of his money, or the New York State Attorney General, BBB, Postmaster, and who ever else he can unload on. If the MM/1 could handle more than 5 serial ports (he's using 10 right now ... or was), he'd have one as soon as Paul could make it happen. *- Steve -* #: 16841 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 03:33:00 Sb: Misplaced Upload Fm: Eric Crichlow 71051,3516 To: All I just uploaded a file to lib 12 that should be bound for lib 16. I'm not sure who routes database traffic here, but I'd sure appreciate it if my little oversight could be corrected. The filename was smate.ar. ..Thanks... ..Eric... #: 16856 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 17:06:04 Sb: #CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: All Hello; Does anyone have a 9600 bps modem, if so, I can not get reliable connections with CIS, I get double or repeating lines (about 3 lines at a time) using a 3 Meg MM/1 What is your modem and /t0 setup? Keith There are 4 Replies. #: 16867 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 20:57:26 Sb: #16856-CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, I'm using a SupraFAX 9600 baud modem and a MM/1 and it's grand! Your trouble is trying to use it with a port that has no modem flow control. You might want to try using software flow control on the modem (AT&K4). Better yet, get a /t3 or /t4 paddle board. It's the ultimate solution for high speed connections. *- Steve -* #: 16868 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 20:57:33 Sb: #16856-CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Ohh .... almost forgot. The default transmit and receive buffers for the serial descriptors are way way way too small. Investigate the utility moded to make 'em bigger. I'm using about a 2K buffer on each side. Give a shout if you need more info. *- Steve -* #: 16891 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 07:12:20 Sb: #16856-#CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, I use a 9600 modem on /T0 with few problems. The repeating data is a symptom of the serial input buffer overflowing. I bet you're using Sterm, right? The solution is to expand the input buffer size. As Steve mentioned, the only way to do this is using moded. Make sure you have the latest moded.fields file, or the buffer size fields won't show up. The ultimate solution is to get a /T3 or /T4 port (the only reason I'm not using one is that IMS still hasn't sent me the one I ordered months ago). -Bill- There is 1 Reply. #: 16893 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 07:56:14 Sb: #16891-#CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, Did you have to rig up a special cable for /t0? OR are you just relying on the increased size of the buffers. Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 16897 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 14:30:04 Sb: #16893-CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, That's a good question. I have a straight through 9 pin to 25 pin cable from the MM/1 to the modem. I don't know for sure, though, whether I have the hardware flow control bit turned on in the descriptor, I'll check it when I get home. -Bill- #: 16906 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 18:28:42 Sb: #16893-#CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I should have waited until I got home to say anything at all! <:-O I do have some problems with straight data capture, even with the large buffer size (I think its 2K right now). But the large buffer size did help things tremendously. I am not using the hardware flow control option of T0, since I thought that DTR/CD signals were more important, at least for now, and IX handles the problem by using software flow control to keep things from getting out of hand. I do wish that my T3 port would show up, I guess its time to rattle their cage again. By the way, I tried looking at T0 using moded, and I get very strange results. Something is not right, either moded.fields, or the descriptor itself. -Bill- There is 1 Reply. #: 16923 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Nov-92 17:32:30 Sb: #16906-#CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) It does sound as if your moded.fields file has a problem. I'm using the one that was included in the upgrade disk (should be in the upgrade file here) with a file length of 63002. *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16929 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Nov-92 04:16:35 Sb: #16923-#CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, That's the one I've got. I wonder if I picked up the wrong descriptors somewhere. Could you mail me one of your serial port descriptors? -Bill- There is 1 Reply. #: 16935 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Nov-92 08:24:24 Sb: #16929-CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) > Steve, > > That's the one I've got. I wonder if I picked up the wrong descriptors > somewhere. Could you mail me one of your serial port descriptors? > > -Bill- > Nice job on the quoting. I need to modify my scripts and then head to the office. I'll bash on the other stuff later. Thanks! *- Steve -* #: 16903 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 18:15:39 Sb: #16856-#CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) I've had nothing but problems with 9600 on this system. But I decided last week that it was more of a modem problem than they system...so I sent the GVC modem back; the dealer is doing an exchange for me to a Infotel. Hope that solves some problems. However, I did get the multiple line thing too when I used v42 data correction. You might want to try MNP4 and see what happens. Also, try fooling around with the hardware handshaking modes. If you get this figured out, let me (and the rest of us) know. There is 1 Reply. #: 16931 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Nov-92 05:36:29 Sb: #16903-#CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, The multiple line thingie is as Bill said, Sterm responding (however incorrectly) to a buffer overrun condition. Increasing the receive buffer in the driver to a suitable size fixes that completely. Also, you must use hardware handshaking for it to be reliable. There is no easy way around this. Hardware handshaking works perfectly on the t3 and t4 ports, and with some difficulty on t0 or t2 (special cable required). There is no problem with the MM/1 or the drivers unless you happen to have a bad serial port. Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 16943 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Nov-92 04:47:43 Sb: #16931-CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Guys; Yes I did increase the buffers to 2048 (2k) and I have not had any more problems. I do have &k set to 4 (&k4) on the modem. Keith #: 16949 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Nov-92 18:41:13 Sb: #16931-CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Oh yes, the buffer size thing. I remember now. I bumped mine up to 4k each, plus I converted my /t1 to /t3 and all works well now. BTW, is 1k the recommended buffer size for B+ at 9600? Or would something a bit larger be better? Does sterm reduce the size dynamically if errors start to get out of hand (or does the protocol even support that kind of thing)? #: 16858 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 20:35:40 Sb: #DL12 Space Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: sysop (X) I'd like to upload Version 1.01 of MPlay but there seems to be a lack of space %-). There is 1 Reply. #: 16874 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 22:59:35 Sb: #16858-DL12 Space Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Stephen, Sorry for the hassle. I've tweaked a few things and you should have no problems uploading your new version of Mplay. If this is a new version of a previously uploaded file, please use the same file name and let the system prompt you to over write the file. Keeps things tidy and we don't have out dated files in teh library. Thanks! Steve #: 16859 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 20:39:49 Sb: #MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: 76070,41 (X) Mark, I've uploaded the enhanced, Shareware, utilities for recording and playing IFF sound to/from disc. Check out the docs! Check out set_levelsn 7! I'll upload a Version 1.01 of MPlay as soon as there is space! Check it out! X I'll make you a deal on a ST296N? There is 1 Reply. #: 16918 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Nov-92 05:36:14 Sb: #16859-#MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Steve, Thanks! I'll go download it and give it a try. Also, thanks for the offer on the disk drive. I can get things pretty cheaply myself, so unless you are talking SUPER cheap (like < $100), I can wait until I have more money. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16924 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Nov-92 17:47:51 Sb: #16918-#MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Not quit that cheap(1), but a good deal. I might just get a good deal on a 600MB CDC DH SCSI drive at work... If so... There is 1 Reply. #: 16945 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Nov-92 05:41:04 Sb: #16924-#MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Steve, Thanks, but I think a 600MB drive is outside my budget (grin). On the other hand, I think your latest sound stuff is really improving! I love the set_levels utility. I'm really looking forward to the full Soundworks package to be released. Do you need beta testers? Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16951 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Nov-92 19:09:36 Sb: #16945-MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, what I meant was... I'm getting a used 600MB drive from work %-) and I'll make you a deal on my ST296N 80MB drive! Half new price! Hate to say it, but the way I'm working now I may not have time to get SoundWorks out on time! 50-60Hrs a week can be KILLer... I'll know next week how things are gonna work out. At least a preliminary release can be made with more features added. What do you think? #: 16861 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 20:43:14 Sb: #SNDDRV - Want more... Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, I'd like to patch the current SNDDRV to let me do 50KHz. Any objections, hints, where to... %-) I most certainly can tell a difference! There is 1 Reply. #: 16909 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 20:27:25 Sb: #16861-SNDDRV - Want more... Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Stephen, inside snddrv is a table of 4 bytes each. The first two are the frequency, the second two are the hardware timer data. So try this: debug l snddrv msl .r7 .r7+500 78000204 That does a memory search, and should find an offset in snddrv where the first frequency table entry is ($7800 = 30720Hz, $0204 = hardware data). What you could do is replace that first entry (or several of the first entries) with a higher speed: For Use Freq Hex Data ----- ----------- 51200 c800 0106 (these have been added to a coming version) 43886 ab6e 0107 40960 a000 0203 38400 9600 0108 34133 8555 0109 30720 7800 0204 <= current top speed in snddrv 27927 6d17 010b Personally, I'd try 40-43KHz first. 50KHz is overkill. - kev #: 16862 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 20:51:41 Sb: #KiX\30 Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: 70310,317 (X) Frank, I' considering getting a KiX\30 if... there are no timely delays, and it must be a 33MHz Monster! When? When I know more about video and Sound support for this critter. Seperate video and audio boards is fine with me. So how is the KiX\30 Audio Board better? Real audio port? That is standard line level, with filtering.... What interference from the system? What about interference from the system? (I should really use an editor!) If I order at the end of this month when can I expect? (Or before) There is 1 Reply. #: 16876 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Nov-92 23:26:46 Sb: #16862-#KiX\30 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) >Frank, I' considering getting a KiX\30 if... >there are no timely delays, and it must be a 33MHz Monster! When? At this point Hazelwood has only run at 16 and 25 Mhz. We are shipping 16Mhz machines now and so far no problems. >When I know more about video and Sound support for this critter. The EK-VAK is being laid out now. Video is the same as the TC70 but with a palatte. The audio on this board is better than the TC70 and may be better than the MM1. However I am not into sound and am speaking from information given to me so don't hold me to that. Once the board is done I will get specs on the audio that I can upload. I would suggest you wait for that. >Seperate video and audio boards is fine with me. I put up a query about an audio board and only got 3 responces or so. Doesn't seem like much demand for it. For now the sound capabilities on the EK-VAK are all that is planned. >So how is the KiX\30 Audio Board better? The KiX\30 does not have audio on the MB. This is done via a plug in board or as part of a plug in board such as the EK-VAK. >Real audio port? That is standard line level, with filtering.... >What about interference from the system? We'll have to wait till the EK-VAK board is done before I would be able to answer that. >If I order at the end of this month when can I expect? (Or before) Orders for the KiX\30 motherboard are taking 2 to 3 weeks with worse case of 3 to 5 weeks. The 4 port serial will start shipping within a week so it too would be 2 to 3 weeks from order. No other boards are in production at this time so I won't give shipping dates. However I will guess that the EK-VAK will be shipped before Christmas. Frank There is 1 Reply. #: 16907 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 19:18:28 Sb: #16876-#KiX\30 Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 (X) You wrote that the audio would be different from what I'm used to. How so. I really should have wrote EK-VAK... According to the info I have introductory prices are good till 12/31/92. Think the 33MHz boards will be shipping by then? How do the systems rate performance wise? A NCR 3445 (486 33MHz MicroChannel) runs at 27 VAX MIPS .. I'd like to know things like this and BEST SCSI transfer using a GOOD drive/device. Which SCSI chip is being used? There are 2 Replies. #: 16908 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 20:26:46 Sb: #16907-KiX\30 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Hazelwood and I conferred on what the EK-VAK should have. I asked for (and got) separate DMA for each sound channel... allowing you to play one sound from one stereo side while the other plays another. I asked for (but didn't get :-) software volume control. There's also DMA input, of course. #: 16912 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Nov-92 22:32:43 Sb: #16907-KiX\30 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Kev answered your audio question. The intro prices are ONLY for the 16Mhz version. There is no special price, nor will there be, for the higher speed versions. You might consider buying the Technical Reference Manual which has complete schmatics plus a whole bunch of other stuff. It's $50 which can be applied towards the purchase price. I put an announcment about that in dl15 (I think) We havn't done the types of tests you refer too. I have an uneasy feeling about benchmarks. Far too often they seem to be rigged. However it is something we plan to do and when we do I'll post that information. On SCSI transfer speeds I also feel the same way. Most available devices in the price range our customers can afford are far slower than even the TC70 transfer speeds. From running the KiX\30 doing HD formats, dsaves etc I notice a significant speedup, the sucker is fast. However 'fast' compared to 'what' is what you want to know. I'll look into it. Frank #: 16913 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Nov-92 01:11:24 Sb: #C help Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: all I wonder if someone could give me some tips on how to break up a C program into a couple of routines that can be compiled separately then linked. The one big chunk of program that I would like to separate and compile contains just screen setup and drawing functions, and the only variables that this routine would need access too from the rest of the program, are Window_path, and Process_ID. I have these variables now as EXTERNAL STATIC., Say the program as it is now is called TEST, and I want to break it up into TEST_1 & TEST_2. All the variables are defined in TEST_1, while the 2 variables that TEST_2 needs are defined in TEST_1 as external. How do I compile TEST_2 by itself and yet let it know that the 2 variables that it needs are defined in TEST_1. Then how do I compile TEST_1 and link the already compiled TEST_2 to it? getting deeper and deeper Larry Olson There is 1 Reply. #: 16920 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Nov-92 08:32:18 Sb: #16913-#C help Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X) Larry, First of all, the extern definition tells the compiler that the variable is defined elsewhere, and references to it will be resolved by the linker. So in your example, define the two variables as extern in the source file TEST_2. Note that if these variables are anything but int's, you must define them as such, even when they are int's I usually define them anyway, something like "extern int Window_path". The same two variables must be defined in TEST_1 as global variables, the easiest way to do this is to place them outside any function definition, I usually put them at the top after any #include's. If the functions within TEST_2 do not modify these variables, its better form to pass them as function arguments, rather than using extern. To compile TEST_1 one and TEST_2, and link them use the commands: cc test1.c -r= cc test2.c -r= cc test1.r test2.r -f=/dd/cmds/test Compiling two modules by hand is easy, but if you get into more complex situations, you will probably want to learn something about make. And if you don't already have cc, its in LIB3 (cc.ar), it makes it all so much easier and faster. -Bill- There is 1 Reply. #: 16942 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Nov-92 00:09:51 Sb: #16920-C help Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, Thanks for the help, your suggestion about passing the variables as arguments is a good one, I didn't even think of that, and it will work in most of the cases. Thanks again larry #: 16925 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Nov-92 17:52:32 Sb: KWindows Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, how are the Windows docs coming? To be more specific... I have wrote several (little) utilites that do not require a full/large window. I'd like to let the user place them on the current window or elsewhere. Codes/Call? eh? %-) #: 16928 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Nov-92 21:06:18 Sb: termcap Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Does anyone know what effect the 'cs' termcap capability avail on a vt100 (which I don't have) has on cursor positioning. From reading my termcap info, it appears that you can set an area on the screen for scrolling. But it doesn't mention how to address the area; but I assume that the x/y stuff remains as full screen. I'm trying to set up scrolling windows requires cursor positioning relative to the new area. Any easy solutions #: 16960 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Nov-92 11:13:56 Sb: #16949-CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) > Oh yes, the buffer size thing. I remember now. I bumped mine up to 4k each, > plus I converted my /t1 to /t3 and all works well now. So you're all fixed up for 9600 baud, eh Bob. Well ... fixed up sans modem. Carl's posted some of his serial utilities in LIB 12 that may be of interest. Serstat lets you look at the inner workings of the port, rtson and rtsoff lets you set RTS on the fly. Let us know when the new box arrives. *- Steve -* #: 16988 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Nov-92 21:04:52 Sb: #16949-CIS and 9600 bps Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, > BTW, is 1k the recommended buffer size for B+ at 9600? Or would > something a bit larger be better? Does sterm reduce the size > dynamically if errors start to get out of hand (or does the protocol > even support that kind of thing)? B+ will back down to a "send and wait" protocol (like old B or XMODEM) if enough errors occur, and then go back to full B+ when the transmission starts going well enough again. B+ also specifies that the packet size is 1024 bytes at 2400 baud or above, 512 bytes for 1200 and 128 for 300 baud. Their reasoning is to keep the packet send time at 5 seconds or less to help reduce the cost of sending repeat packets in case of an error, and also to reduce the amount of time it takes for the protocol to recover from on error when there are several packets in the acknowledgement queue (since B+ is a sliding windows type protocol). BTW: Steve Wegert and I have the OSK version of Kermit 5A which also has sliding windows. Works real nice. Now if CIS or Delphi would implement it it would be better. Mark #: 16962 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Nov-92 11:21:27 Sb: #16958-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) > That seems to point to the mouse driver, rather than Desktop. BTW, which > version of windio are you using? I've just nabbed version 48 off of Ocean BBS. I _was_ running ver46 as I wasn't aware that Kev had released anything later. I've just returned from Ocean BBS and have rebuilt my boot with ver48 stuff. (yes Mark ... I'll bring that in as well!) I'll have to ask Kev if he minds us making v48 available. Seems Warren got it from Gary Lathem who got it from Paul. And you know how that goes sometimes! I agree the dissappearing mouse sounds driver related. Perhaps the stuff in v48 corrects it. Thanks for the pointer! *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 16978 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Nov-92 00:13:58 Sb: #16962-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve - Edition 48 was put together for the CoCoFest. Since people said it had some sort of bug in an ANSI routine (it all seems to work to me?), I didn't post it. But you can if you want. I'm trying to finish up the next (final?) version which will have built-in menu support features/etc. I think we've tracked down the mouse thingie: it usually happens after hard disk access... the mouse serial driver gets an overrun error and locks up. Once we figured that out, I changed the v48 code in such a way that it should've fixed the problem, but for some reason it didn't. Then finally, either Kevin Pease or Carl found out that the *manuals* are wrong about the way the errors are handled on the chip. That figures. Anyway, I believe Pease is testing a version he custom wrote which should get around all that. I'll try to get the code from him and make all new modules. On another topic, I notice that Mike sometimes (usually?) forks processes with the same main screen type to the same screen as Desktop... on a small screen they end up overlapping all of Desktop and this is hard to tell (unless you click on the To-Back window control). We'll talk this method over. - kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 16985 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Nov-92 13:34:18 Sb: #16978-More Desktop Stuff Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, I'll make v48 public today. Thanks for the info on the mouse lock ups ... I'll be looking forward to the fix. One other area you might be able to assist with (and I'm not certain it's even related to windows) is having what appears to be stardard in locking up ... but all other paths are fine. Here's what happens: I'm running Sterm and connect to one particular type of modem (some kind of DEC). It is 2400 baud and supports upto MNP level 3. I get a solid error checking connect and the session will be fine for a few minutes. Then the screen freezes. I get nothing but anything I type is sent out the modem (I can see the lights flicker and the guy on the other end is reporting my data back to me). This has started to happen since I switched to my new SupraFax 9600 baud modem and started using the console more. I haven't been able to duplicate it from a terminal yet, but i'm still trying. I can't figure out any particular pattern as of yet ... exccept it generally hits me when I'm inside an OSK mail editor replying to mail. Do you have any ideas I can try that might help isolate this? Here are my possibilities ... have I left any out? 1) The modem. Swap in an old 2400 non error correcting modem and the problem never occurs. Set the new modem to no error correcting and the problem hasn't occured. However, I only have this happen with this one particular DEC modem in Southern FL. He swaps to a different modem and all is fine. 2) Serial driver related. I'm always on /t3 for the modem so perhaps there's still something with the sc68681 driver. 3) Windows. Perhaps some escape sequence is getting back and locking the screen? *- Steve -* #: 16967 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Nov-92 18:16:55 Sb: #16944-sback Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Inizing the floppy drivers at bootup clear(ed) up the problem with os9gen. I just mentioned that as a possible track to a bug in the drivers (my system?). The format problem which started this thread comes about regardless of the iniz/no iniz. If this is just my problem??? Could be a memory problem? Is there a memory test for the mm/1? Guess I could switch my 1meg simms around and see if that changes anything. #: 16976 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Nov-92 21:17:50 Sb: #atari osk u.k. Fm: PaulSeniura 76476,464 To: all Please read msg # 16776 - is there anyone that knows about Atari/OSK from a company in the UK? I thought this was the OS9 SIG .. maybe I'm wrong .. maybe I was wise to ditch this place a year ago and probably should stay away from OSK altogether if this is the kind of help I'm going to get. (e.g. NO help) An Atarian said the exchange rate a few weeks ago made him pay about $251. (US) and the original post I put here tells the rest - 8kg of books is over 17 lbs. to us non-metric types. And I'm wondering if this version of OSK has a windowing environment, too, even if I hafta get it from another company, does Atari/OSK have windows?? Whether or not windows for Atari/OSK exists, is $251 a good price for the package? I am dead seriously thinking about getting it. I do not have any kind of budget to get any other kind of 680x0-based machine -Atari-ST I already own, put on 4-meg RAM, upgraded to Turbo-16MHz board (with instruction cache), and I've even gotten a multisync monitor working with all 3 resolutions accessible (and I'm presently using that same monitor on my CoCo3, too). -- Thx, Paul S. There is 1 Reply. #: 16977 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Nov-92 22:41:12 Sb: #16976-#atari osk u.k. Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: PaulSeniura 76476,464 (X) Paul, Actually, I had thought your original posting was more of an informational nature... that you were going to get the package anyway and then tell the rest of us all about it :-) See, the Cumana port has only really been sold overseas. That's why it would be unusual to get a response here on US-dominated boards... nobody here has it! (People here had instead bought the ST port which Microware took over.) The only thing (besides the MIDI driver, which you mentioned) that I recall as being different from the MW version, is that supposedly all the drivers are completely standalone. (The MW version's drivers use some of the builtin TOS ROM code.) I *think* I've heard that the Cumana port has some form of multiscreen environment, but I can't swear to it. We're still trying to figure out if my KW driver works on all STs (so that people won't get it for no reason). I believe you can buy G-Windows for the Cumana port, but again, I just haven't seen it in person and can't swear to it. I'll try to ask on the internet for more details. Is it worth the price? I think so, if it's the Pro package with C compiler (which I believe it is). Does it come with Basic too? As you said, the ST is a good machine (and quite okay in speed)... and super inexpensive these days. - kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 17008 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Nov-92 20:35:49 Sb: #16977-#atari osk u.k. Fm: PaulSeniura 76476,464 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) I'd *greatly* appreciate some more input from internet folks if you could do that for me! I just got my access to internet/ftp/telnet on Delphi and will probably start "living" over there 'cuz of their cheap rates. Well the problem with MW's port is that I wouldn't get all that tonage of books & software with their back-level "personal" Atari/OSK, which is the only version MW sells that I can afford. The "Pro" is still around $600, isn't it? I'd rather spend $250 with fluctuating exchange rates to get something very close to MW's Pro package. Cumana's seems to be much more complete, too, with meeses & MIDI support (we gotta get Mike Knudson working on an Atari version if rewriting is needed!). And then I'm very apprehensive about ROM levels -- I almost ordered the TOS 2.61(?) hdwr upgrade which extends the buss to 24-bit I think going to/from the ROMs, and that could play havok with MW's OSK. So once again I'm talking myself into Cumana's being a "safer" port. I thought there was a trick in accessing the I/O circuitry directly, and MW's port would be "safer" in this regard. But I dunno! Ya know I can do some hacking & 'sperimenting, but this time I'm in the dark. Blowing a wad of money at the local RS store was a safe bet on buying OS9 there, but having to go overseas to get it -- I gotta get more input! I also forgot to ask if MW and/or Cumana can support my ICD SCSI adaptor? (only 1 40-meg h.d. is hooked up right now, but who knows, maybe we can get CD-I or CD-ROM going one of these days?! wonder if we could compete against Philips ;) Well lessee the bottom line is if there's some kind of multiscreen pkg or support for either MW or Cumana ports, and which support the ICD SCSI adaptor (prob'ly one of the older/original ones w/o its own SCSI ID except for the real-time clock circuit on it). Those two answers will sure help me pick which OSK to buy and then finally I'd be "in with da big folks", eh? -- thx, Paul Seniura. (p.s. lemme know if I can repay ya somehow) There are 2 Replies. #: 17009 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Nov-92 21:12:12 Sb: #17008-#atari osk u.k. Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: PaulSeniura 76476,464 (X) Paul, Urrgh. I'm not sure that either port supports the ICD adapter. Back when the MW ST port first came out, I talked to ICD and they said they'd be happy to provide whatever info is necessary to do a driver. Dunno if tht still holds, tho. I asked about the port on usenet, so I'll post here with any info. It would seem likely that someone has done an ICD driver. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 17010 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Nov-92 21:24:54 Sb: #17009-#atari osk u.k. Fm: PaulSeniura 76476,464 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Oh I know ICD's BBS phone # so lemme ring 'em up (after 10:pm of course). Anyone can d/l their latest drivers, and boy that cache feature can really make things zoom. I bought Warp-9, too, and along with the 16mhz I dare say it'll run rings around a PS/2 model 70 or so. I had planned to get a "true color" card but other things ate up my yearly bonus check this time. With the tech info on all this stuff, and the right Pro OSK pkg, surely we can do some incredible things! But it's sure not easy adding RS232 ports or extra cards to an ST like the CoCo/MPI can do. Thanks for all your help! If OSK falls thru, there's a "real" port of UNIX for the ST I can think about .. *shudder* .. -- Paul S. There is 1 Reply. #: 17027 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Nov-92 00:47:03 Sb: #17010-atari osk u.k. Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: PaulSeniura 76476,464 Yah, it's not easy to add cards to an ST... everything has to be done by "reads" from the ROM port. People use reads from 256 different addresses in order to fake "writing" a byte at a time, for instance. Starting to get some email feedback on the Cumana port question I posted on usenet. Standby. #: 17025 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Nov-92 22:32:00 Sb: #17008-atari osk u.k. Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: PaulSeniura 76476,464 >> support the ICD SCSI adapter. The MW version since 2.2 supports all SCSI adapters, but only 1 physical drive. Don't know what the Cumana version supports. Kevin's simple multi-window hack works with the Microwave version. Microwave included some graphics hackery with version 2.3. Robert #: 16981 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Nov-92 06:58:31 Sb: #A New Terminal Program? Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: All Guys; Is their a good terminal program for OSK besides sterm, aterm, tex. That works on the same setup as the COCO 3 ultmaterm 4.0 program. I would like to see one that would also do a autolog to say CIS. Have X,Y,Z Kermit, CIS B+, S/R Fax and any others that I can not think of! If we don't have one, could someone make a program like that. This could be the best terminal program for OS9/^*K68K. I have used PROCOMM PLUS on the IBM and I like the program that program best for the IBM world, but I don't want to move over to IBM. Thanks for listening. Keith There are 2 Replies. #: 16994 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Nov-92 23:55:33 Sb: #16981-#A New Terminal Program? Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Gee Keith ... you've just described many of the features Mark Griffith has already put into his Sterm PRO terminal program. Send and Receive fax was a late addition to the 'must have' list so be sure to let him know you think it's important such support be there. *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 17019 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Nov-92 18:49:46 Sb: #16994-#A New Terminal Program? Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, if you all (sorry about that spelling , but us Canucks just don't speak the langauge like Kevin and Mark do) are keeping a tally on send/receive fax; add me to the list. If nothing else, that feature alone would make StermPro a worthwhile investment. There is 1 Reply. #: 17023 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Nov-92 20:59:44 Sb: #17019-A New Terminal Program? Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I have to agree. S/R fax capability is sorely needed ... and an open playing field. I haven't seen anything that supports it yet. Steve #: 17006 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Nov-92 19:55:03 Sb: #16981-A New Terminal Program? Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, > Is their a good terminal program for OSK besides sterm, aterm, tex. That > works on the same setup as the COCO 3 ultmaterm 4.0 program. I would like to > see one that would also do a autolog to say CIS. Have X,Y,Z Kermit, CIS B+, > S/R Fax and any others that I can not think of! If we don't have one, could > someone make a program like that. This could be the best terminal program for > OS9/^*K68K. I have used PROCOMM PLUS on the IBM and I like the program that > program best for the IBM world, but I don't want to move over to IBM. > People are working on such things. Since most of us have to interleave our programming time with our regular jobs, family obligations, etc, it takes some time to get the things we are working on done. If you really need something that badly, why don't you write it up yourself? Most of the programs available for OS-9/OSK were done for that reason....the user needed it. Mark #: 16989 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Nov-92 21:05:05 Sb: #16951-#MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Steve, > Hate to say it, but the way I'm working now I may not have time to get > SoundWorks out on time! 50-60Hrs a week can be KILLer... I'll know next > week how things are gonna work out. At least a preliminary release can be > made with more features added. What do you think? > I'd wait until you have it all together and working properly before you release it. Also, do some more work on the current versions and add some error messages to them. If you don't put a parameter on the command line or a wrong parameter is given, it just spits out the help message and doesn't tell you what you are missing. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 16993 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Nov-92 22:55:33 Sb: #16989-#MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, they do spit out error messages and then the help. That is, if a parameter is incorrectly specified it tells you so. Maybe you want me to complain about not specifying a parameter?? Well, the help should be enough to tell the user what XYZ expects. Like are you going to try to record a sound without specifying a sampling rate? No, hiffrecord will display help if any of the necessaries are omitted. Should I make the docs such that a 4th grader could use? I don't think so, but point well taken. %-) OH, I have most of it working just fine just not together. I've spent more time developing the componets instead of the actual interface. Though the interface is very important. What I've decided on is to display only a second of sound at a time with the screen divided in two(left/right) with indication of mode Stereo/Left/Right or both Mono etc... I'm open to any creative ideas. There is 1 Reply. #: 17001 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Nov-92 08:59:02 Sb: #16993-MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Steve, When something is missing from the command line, yes you should put up a message for the user. If you think it is too much trouble to try and help the "4th grade" users, then you shouldn't be trying to sell your programs. Also, your help messages could be more specific. Again, the more info you give the better it will be. The interface is very important. If it is not up to snuf as the user sees it, then they won't have much confidence in the rest of the program. Look at the MS-DOS world, help messages are very detailed and context sensitive. Not that you need to go that far, but that is what the users want. Mark #: 17007 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Nov-92 20:26:29 Sb: More Desktop Stuff Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, Here's an update on the hanging problem I described earlier. I had the same thing happen running off my Wyse terminal, so that lets windows off the hook. I've also had the same thing happen with just using Kermit as the terminal program, so Sterm seems to be in the clear. *- Steve -* #: 17033 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Nov-92 18:26:28 Sb: 12 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Drive settings How do I configure a 1.44 floppy to the correct drive number? I have a Citizen which I'd like to set as drive 1. I see a real small switch next to the stepper motor which seems to have two settings. I assume these are for High density/normal modes. There is a small jumper block behind the power connecter. It appear to have 6 pins; looking at the top it is set as follows: X--X X X--X X I assume this to be the drive number select. Anyone with a tech manual? #: 17046 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Nov-92 05:06:33 Sb: #80 Trk Mizar Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all Does anyone have the dmode settings for 80 trk Mizar format. There is 1 Reply. #: 17047 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Nov-92 06:48:13 Sb: #17046-80 Trk Mizar Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott, > Does anyone have the dmode settings for 80 trk Mizar format. > Lemme see....type=$26, dns=$03, toffs=0, soffs=0, sct=10, t0s=10 I believe these are correct. Mark #: 17055 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Nov-92 20:46:03 Sb: #Hard Drive Advice Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Hard drives Does anyone have any advise concerning Hard Drives for the mm/1. I'm thinking of getting a 2nd and am considering a Maxtor 130mg. They are advertised for around $325--is this a good deal? Anyone have any experince particular brand? When I read the ads, I'm a bit confused by SCSI, SCSI-2 and (if I recall) SCSI-S. Any difference? Will '2' work on the mm/1? Any help appreciated... There are 2 Replies. #: 17068 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-92 06:06:30 Sb: #17055-#Hard Drive Advice Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, >Does anyone have any advise concerning Hard Drives for the mm/1. I'm >thinking of getting a 2nd and am considering a Maxtor 130mg. They are >advertised for around $325--is this a good deal? Anyone have any >experince particular brand? I know of no particular brand that is better or worse than any one else. >When I read the ads, I'm a bit confused by SCSI, SCSI-2 and (if I >recall) SCSI-S. Any difference? Will '2' work on the mm/1? SCSI and SCSI-2 will work just fine. Never heard of SCSI-S. Only difference between SCSI and SCSI-2 is the theoretical max transfer rate and some extra SCSI commands unique to the SCSI-2 command set. Nothing that will effect its performance in the MM/1. There is 1 Reply. #: 17078 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-92 22:22:59 Sb: #17068-Hard Drive Advice Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Thanks for the reply, Mark. Don't know what all the suffixes mean either. I just found the ad in the Shopper. Nov/92, page 671 'Direct Drives' have a list of stuff. The drives are labeled 'SCSI', 'SCSI-S', 'SCSI-2' and 'SCSI-2F'. Opps, no plain 'SCSI'--maybe '-S' means plain? #: 17086 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-92 05:32:27 Sb: #17055-Hard Drive Advice Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, When I went looking for a hard drive for the MM/1, my first choice was the Quantum that Mark was talking up. Unfortunately ... they were way way out of stock and didn't have any idea when any more would show up. Something about allocations all going to Apple. My next choice was a Maxtor drive. I have a good feeling about Maxtor as my company is a vendor of theirs. I have had very good dealings with their engineering department as well as their purchasing agent. HAving talent there speaks well of an organization, IMHO. Unfortunately ... at the time HDI was also out of stock on the size I needed. I ended up with a Connor 120 meg and have been very please. THe price I paid was in the same neighborhood you're speaking about. *- Steve -* #: 17058 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Nov-92 01:07:32 Sb: #16883-#Desktop hacks Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Yeah, I've been thinking about a command line option for GIFShow to use the current screen and munge it to what ever it wants to. Thoughts on what letter to use? -c? - Mike - There are 2 Replies. #: 17069 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-92 06:06:37 Sb: #17058-Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, > Yeah, I've been thinking about a command line option for GIFShow to use the > current screen and munge it to what ever it wants to. Thoughts on what > letter to use? -c? > Sounds good to me. Get right on that OK (grin)? #: 17099 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Nov-92 05:32:05 Sb: #17058-Desktop hacks Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, On another note, I'm getting ready to finish up the OSK/UUCP port and need to know how you incorportated OXM into your mail setup. Also, I need a copy of OXM....seems I don't have one any more. I know I need to compile the UUCP code with a different flag, but then I need to know the directory structure and files that OXM expects to see. Any information you can give me is this areas would be greatly appreciated. #: 17059 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Nov-92 01:07:42 Sb: #16831-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Sigh! I have plans to expand GClock and write the other Gutils. Just haven't had the time. Using the 2nd mouse button is out. Kev's grabbed it for cutting and pasting text. I've changed the delete to overwrite any file it finds with the same name in the .TRASH dir. Also added you double-click editor thing. So far it seems dandy. The Utils menu will be filled with all sorts of System info utils like Procs, MDir, MFree and Free. Any utils you feel are essensial? Good suggestions, keep em coming, - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 17070 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-92 06:06:49 Sb: #17059-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, > Also added you double-click editor thing. Is this in there to stay? I thought you didn't like the idea? What about forking the shell? I mentioned that apparently you only look at the shell environment variable when forking a shell to execute a script. What is needed, I'd suppose, is a variable for what shell to fork for an interactive session and what to fork for a script. Keep that work coming!! There is 1 Reply. #: 17082 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-92 00:21:45 Sb: #17070-#More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Depends how well you, Steve and I like it. I'm not sure how to make shell scripts run if I keep it in. I guess you could Open a shell script, yuk! It now uses the SHELL env var for all shell access, including forking basic i-code. Does smersh and sh both understand basic i-code needs RunB and automatically for it that way? - Mike - There are 2 Replies. #: 17089 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-92 08:26:01 Sb: #17082-More Desktop Stuff Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I see you tidied up the little problem of loosing ones place with multiple deletes ... thanks! But (yeah ... I know) I just had occasion to do some multiple renames. Looks like you pop to the top of the directory there as well. Better choice may be to just reaccess and hold the spot. If I want to move, I'll use the mouse ... or the keyboard. *- Steve -* #: 17097 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Nov-92 05:31:51 Sb: #17082-More Desktop Stuff Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, > Depends how well you, Steve and I like it. I'm not sure how to make shell > scripts run if I keep it in. I guess you could Open a shell script, yuk! I like it, but if it means I can't click on a shell script to run it, then I'd rather not have it in there. My original idea was to have Desktop check the execute attribute on the file and run it if it was set, otherwise pull it into the editor. If this is not possible, then I'd rather have it set to run the file by default. An alternative would be to allow the user to 'Open' the file into the editor. > It now uses the SHELL env var for all shell access, including forking basic > i-code. Does smersh and sh both understand basic i-code needs RunB and > automatically for it that way? Is this set in the version I have (last one you uploaded)? No, smersh doesn't understand BASIC i-code, and I'm sure sh and csh don't either. Could you make two environment variables, say SHELLRUN and SHELLINTER and let the user pick what they want? For the BASIC i-code problem, again, you should be able to look at the module header of the file and see it is an i-code file and then run BASIC directly. I know this makes more work for you, but I really believe you need to make this as user setable as possible. The more little touches you add like this, the more positive response you will get from your users. On another note, if you want me to do your docs, you should be sending me something soon so I can get started. #: 17065 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Nov-92 21:47:15 Sb: Robots Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427 To: steve mann 70740,741 Hey Robert, I remember reading about the Denning Mobile Robots back in the early 80's. I built a mobile robot for my Master's thesis then only it was a great deal cheaper and did the same thing (I used 6800 chips). If I had to do it over I would have used a 68K chip and OSK. I had lots of fun building it and got a great deal of press coverage as well. I used optical shaft encoders and ultrasonic transducers for range, orientation, and object detection. See ya! Bert Schneider #: 17073 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-92 09:29:26 Sb: #GNU C++ ported? Fm: Graham Ullrich/C.B.,CO 76506,2037 To: All I'm searching for a commercially supported source of the GNU C++ compiler (and related tools) that is ported to _both_ the OS-9 and OS-9000 operating systems. I need both because our product development is done in OS-9000 on PCs, and ported to OS-9 running on a 68xxx host platform. The latest stable version of this compiler is around 2.1 or 2.2, with the newest release v2.3? still acting up (bugs). Any help locating such a "support" company would be appreciated. P.S. I realize that GNU source code is free, but since the Free Software Foundation doesn't directly support OS-9/OS-9000, I think using another company who give the ported source for free and sells "support" for the compiler system is the best way to go for my company. There is 1 Reply. #: 17075 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-92 18:37:46 Sb: #17073-#GNU C++ ported? Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Graham Ullrich/C.B.,CO 76506,2037 (X) Graham: The only version of gcc/g++ for OS-9/68000 that I know of is gcc V1.37, which is available on the InterNet fromcabrales.cs.wisc.edu. I think the OSK source code is there. It requires 4 or 5 meg of RAM to compile. There is no port of gdb and the gcc code does not generate the necessary debug info for MicroWare's SRCDBG to be very usefull. Gcc and G++ do work reasonable well though. MicroWare has recently come out with a a full ANSI C compiler (Ultra C). I don't know if a C++ front end is in the works or not... I don't think gcc 2.2 has been ported to any flavor of OS-9 (OS-9/68K orr OS-9000/386). I don't think the present version of gcc/g++ has been ported to OS-9000/386. (The present version for OSK uses the MicroWare assembler and linker, so making cross version should not be an imposible task, just some work.) Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 17079 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-92 23:25:37 Sb: #17075-#GNU C++ ported? Fm: Graham Ullrich/C.B.,CO 76506,2037 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Well, if you are correct, that seems to rule out my use of the GNU compiler for development. I've got to have it for both OS-9 and OS-9000, and the source level debugger support is of paramount importance. Thanks for the information Robert. There is 1 Reply. #: 17094 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-92 20:39:36 Sb: #17079-#GNU C++ ported? Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Graham Ullrich/C.B.,CO 76506,2037 (X) I don't know what would be involved in either porting gdb to OS-9/68K and/or OS-9000 or what would be needed to get gcc to spit out SRCDBG compatable debug info. It should not be an imposible task to port gcc to generate 80386 code for OS-9000 (gcc/g++ does exist for '386 UNIX and '386 MS-DOS). I guess you would need to diddle with the assembly code generator to generate the correct format for r86 (or whatever the OS-9000/386 assembler is called). All doable. But you may have to do it yourself -- this tends to be the case with FSF systems. Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 17121 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Nov-92 21:22:33 Sb: #17094-#GNU C++ ported? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 Microware is shipping their Ultra C compiler (ANSI) for OS9 now and within a few weeks should have their OS9000 Ultra C shipping. I've recently started using the OS9 Ultra C within the past few days. I could give a better reaction later, but so far looks good. ANSI mode will help in writing more bug-free code, portability goes up greatly. There is 1 Reply. #: 17132 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Nov-92 23:28:55 Sb: #17121-GNU C++ ported? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) OOPS, just talked to Microware marketing today, the estimated release for OS9000 Ultra C given to me was sometime in February. #: 17141 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Nov-92 15:53:59 Sb: #12 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: C Casts Can one of the wizards help me out? I have some code which sort of looks like: #define KEYS 26 int (*indexes)[KEYS2]; char *p; foo() { .... assign p to an offset into a memory module ... .... now set the indexes array pointer .... indexes=p; .... } I need to cast p to the type of indexes. Nothing I try seems to work. I thought that "indexes=(int**)p" would work... Someone got the answer? There are 3 Replies. #: 17144 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Nov-92 13:41:35 Sb: #17141-#12 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob - Hmm.. lessee.. First, I'll assume that the reference to KEYS2 was a typo. Next, it appears that you are declaring an array of pointers to a type 'int'. This array is KEYS (26) elements long. Now - in assigning 'indexes=p', you have told the compiler that you want &indexes[0] = p. In other words, you have established 'p' as being the base address of the array. If this is really what you want to do (?,?). Now since &indexes[0] should probably only be an RVAL (something to be taken the value of; not something to be assigned), I'm not sure the compiler will let you assign a value, regardless of how you cast it. You may have to set up yet another pointer to the array, or just set it up as a pointer to an int, i.e.: int *intpointer; Then could still reference array type stuff by using syntax like intpointer+1, intpointer+offset, etc. Because the compiler knows how long an int is, this is exactly like using array references anyway. The only catch is that you will have to becareful about the 'subscript' (offset), as the compiler will pretty much let you do what you want. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 17147 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Nov-92 18:25:08 Sb: #17144-#12 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Thanks for the help, Pete. I got some help from the CDECL program (in the TOP library). After I finally got it to compile I had it figure out things for me. Here's the scoop: 1. I have an array "int indexes[KEYS1][KEYS2]" which holds a bunch of offsets into a database. 2. These are stored in a datamod which I load into memory when needed. 3. My program links to the datamod. So it needs two things. First a it needs a variable indexes which can be used to access the database. int (*indexes)[KEYS2]; works fine. I can now do things like t=indexes[a][b]... The problem comes in transfering the address of the index in the datamod to the variable indexes. First off, we have to link to the module. So we make a declaration and create a variable to store the address of data mod: Smod *module, *modlink(); After a successful link, I want to set 'indexes' to predetermined offset into the module. Here is the proper way: indexes=(int(*)[KEYS2])(module+xoffset); This casts the type of 'module' to that of 'index'. On the other question...yes, I was afraid that I couldn't get those sizes at compile time easily. Resorting to asm for this is probably not worth the bother...I'll just use strlen() dynamically. There is 1 Reply. #: 17149 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Nov-92 19:22:32 Sb: #17147-#12 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) What's this CDECL program? What's it do? Pete There are 2 Replies. #: 17163 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Nov-92 18:20:06 Sb: #17149-#12 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, The CDECL program is a magic aid to figuring out complex C declarations. Some sample input: declare foo as pointer to function returning pointer to int explain char *(*woof)() cast yy into pointer to array 44 of int returns the lines: int *(*foo)() declare woof as pointer to function returning pointer to char (int (*)[44])yy The history of this program is UNIX. I got it out of the TOP library. Not sure which volume (I've repacked mine onto 1.44meg disks). It comes in source and you'll need flex and bison to complile it. I had to change the flex parser to use readln() instead of read() to get the interactive mode to work...otherwise (if you ignore the compile warnings ) all works fine. Very useful for the strange declarations needed from time to time. There is 1 Reply. #: 17170 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Nov-92 23:20:09 Sb: #17163-#12 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Ahhhh. Slick. Do you happen to have a 68K binary ready to go? If so, could you post or upload? Thanks... Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 17179 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Nov-92 18:58:11 Sb: #17170-#12 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, Have a look later in Lib 12 for Cdecl.lzh. It's got the binary, docs and a test data set. There is 1 Reply. #: 17182 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Nov-92 09:35:02 Sb: #17179-12 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Thanks bob... That'll be a help. I always have to stumble through the stuff that's not readily apparent (grin)... Pete #: 17164 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Nov-92 18:20:57 Sb: #17149-12 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, The CDECL program is a magic aid to figuring out complex C declarations. Some sample input: declare foo as pointer to function returning pointer to int explain char *(*woof)() cast yy into pointer to array 44 of int returns the lines: int *(*foo)() declare woof as pointer to function returning pointer to char (int (*)[44])yy The history of this program is UNIX. I got it out of the TOP library. Not sure which volume (I've repacked mine onto 1.44meg disks). It comes in source and you'll need flex and bison to complile it. I had to change the flex parser to use readln() instead of read() to get the interactive mode to work...otherwise (if you ignore the compile warnings ) all works fine. Very useful for the strange declarations needed from time to time. #: 17152 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Nov-92 03:35:15 Sb: #17141-12 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, > int (*indexes)[KEYS2]; > > I need to cast p to the type of indexes. Nothing I try seems to work. I > thought that "indexes=(int**)p" would work... > The declaration int (*indexes)[26] is different than int *indexes[26]. The latter making indexes an array of 26 pointers pointing to 26 integers. The first is a pointer pointing to an array of 26 integers. It is explained more clearly like this: indexes[][26]. So it really is a form of a multi-dimensional array. You would access the array like this: var = indexes[i] which is the same as var = &indexes[0][i] So I don't think you can assign a value to indexes since it really isn't a pointer. You could do something like int *idx = &indexes and then assign a value to idx. Play around with that and see what happens. I had to look around for an answer to this one. Found it in my Plum Hall book "Reliable Data Structures in C". /*------------- /\/\ark -------------*/ #: 17173 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Nov-92 10:39:27 Sb: #17141-12 Fm: Bruce MacKenzie 71725,376 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Try, indexes = (int (*)[KEYS]) p; #: 17143 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Nov-92 20:08:50 Sb: #C Casts Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: All Here's another C question: I have an array of pointer to char declared in my program. Let's say it look like: char *items[]={"one","two","three"}; Is it possible to determine the lengths of the strings at compile time? I'd like to be able to do something like: int len1=sizeof(items[0]); But that sets len1 to the size of the pointer (4), not the length of the string (3). Do I have to go through with strlen() for the whole list or is there a compile time method? There are 2 Replies. #: 17145 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Nov-92 13:47:03 Sb: #17143-C Casts Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob - Short of going into assembler (see below), I don't know of a compile time method. As you surmise, the sizeof will get you the size of the pointer. Assembly style would be something like this: string fcc "Holy cow" fcb $0d strlen set .-string You could probably bracket them with #asm and #endasm and include it in your C program. You could get an idea by using the CC options to go to assembler with source embedded as comments. Then, edit the assembly source to include the 'len set .-string_start' stuff. Pete P.S. Make the '.'s '*''s #: 17153 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Nov-92 03:35:24 Sb: #17143-#C Casts Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, > I have an array of pointer to char declared in my program. Let's say it look > like: > > char *items[]={"one","two","three"}; > > Is it possible to determine the lengths of the strings at compile time? I'd > like to be able to do something like: > > int len1=sizeof(items[0]); > > But that sets len1 to the size of the pointer (4), not the length of the > string (3). Do I have to go through with strlen() for the whole list or is > there a compile time method? > I'd say you need to use strlen() or, since you know that size of each item in the array, make another array that holds the size of each element, or make your items[] array two-dimensional and hard code the sizes in there. Not very elegant, but the compiler has no way of knowing what the sizes of the elements are since you explicitly told it they were pointer items. /*------------- /\/\ark -------------*/ There is 1 Reply. #: 17168 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Nov-92 21:44:06 Sb: #17153-C Casts Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Thanks for the help Mark. See my other messages on the cast problem. I was afraid that I'd have to resort to strlen(). Oh well, just figured that someone might have a real clever idea . #: 17159 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Nov-92 23:31:16 Sb: #17027-#atari osk u.k. Fm: PaulSeniura 76476,464 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi .. I've been reaaal bizzee .. got my ST back just last week, should be up-to-snuff now. ICD has a version 6.0.6 of their drivers, it's getting to be awfully solid .. B&B should consider cache functions in their drivers. I spent all my bonus money on getting the ST & cars fixed up, so no "true color" card for the ST despite me already having a multisync monitor working in all resolutions (even works on the CoCo3 :) . However, next payday if I can keep away from the "holiday spirit" (i.e. fingers outa my wallet), I *should* be able to order Cumana's pkg next month. So I'm still definitely interested in any feedback ya get. The guy on Delphi who actually bought the Cumana thing is typing some details about it. I think there *is* some SCSI support in there after all, but absolutely no graphics :( it seems. But I'm more than willing to help work on such drivers for the ST and I do wanna get it standardized (not nec'ly CoCo3 standards but future ones like ANSI/OSI/ X-Open/whatever is happenin' with Un*x, then we'd have some fun stuff to port as end-user applications too .. i.e. why re-invent the wheel?). Oh well thank you for the time and I *do* appreciate it! -- thx, Paul S. There is 1 Reply. #: 17160 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Nov-92 00:06:17 Sb: #17159-#atari osk u.k. Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: PaulSeniura 76476,464 (X) Paul - I didn't get much feedback from usenet on the Cumana port (probably bad timing). Someone did say there was a port of the MGR windowing system to it, but didn't say who sold it. (It was part of something called System Pak I). Keep us posted as to what you find out from the other guy, tho! thx - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 17187 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Nov-92 18:16:10 Sb: #17160-atari osk u.k. Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 Hello Kevin The guy who made MGR is called Wolfgang Ocker. It is the same guy who made 'oxm' in TOP. His company is called 'Reccoware Systems', and you can find his fax,phone and Email-addrress in some of the 'readme'-files in TOP V2.0 regards ole exit #: 17169 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Nov-92 13:20:45 Sb: OSK V2.4 For The HCS 20X Fm: JBM Electronics 71174,3442 To: All I recently talked to Mike Smith of Hazelwood Computers regarding a port of OSK 2.4 to the 20x board. He would like some sort of indication of how much interest there is in such a port. I, for one, want to see OSK V2.4 ported to the 20x so we can run Ultra-C and the Source Code Management system on our 20x at work. Mike said that the cost for the update would be $200.00 for the 20x. There is also a promotional price for Ultra-C. Please repond to me via E-Mail if you would like OSK V2.4 ported to the HCS 20x and I'll pass the number of responses on to Mike. Thanks in advance! -J. Truesdale #: 17181 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Nov-92 09:13:33 Sb: DVI24PIN ??? Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: TeX uses... TITLE: Looking for DVI to BJ300/330 converter I have a Canon Bubble Jet printer (BJ-330) and would like to use TeX. This printer emulates either an IBM XL224E or an Epson LQ-1050 24-pin printers (these are the wide carriage versions - the same escape sequences apply to the IBM X24E and Epson LQ-850, which are the narrow carriage printers). I know there exists a DVI24PIN for MS-DOS (I even know where I can get the EXE file). The problem is - I don't run MS-DOS. I run OS-9/68000 on my 68030-based Force CPU30 system. I need *source* code (in C). Does anyone have this code. Last time I looked, Channel-1 only had the executable. Robert FidoNet 1:321/153 CompuServ 71450,3432 InterNet heller@cs.umass.edu BIX locks.hill.bbs #: 17186 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Nov-92 23:20:48 Sb: #Troff UNIX compatable Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: All Does anyone know of a text formatter that will do standard UNIX man pages? I mean for OS-9. I'm tired of having to 'fix' em. It would be much better just to format 'em. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 17191 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Dec-92 08:42:43 Sb: #17186-Troff UNIX compatable Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike - Well, there's always 'groff' (GNU roff), iffn you want to port it. Otherwise, it's'mroff'. I guess you could write a macro set for mroff to emulate the -man man macros... Pete #: 17189 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Dec-92 08:04:28 Sb: OS9/68K software Fm: Robert Bradford 100016,1174 To: 76576,3312 Hi Ed! I want to get in touch with directly over the subject of OS-9 software for sale. We have spoken before, when I worked for Pan Controls, in Scotland. I can be reached on Uk phone number 031-225-2545, or UK fax 031-225-2745 or home number 0259-781-315 I have discussed the problem of US distribution with Steve Weller, and he is not being very active at the moment. Please get in touch. Alternatively, let me have a number where I can call you. Regards, Robert Press !> #: 17193 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Dec-92 22:16:08 Sb: #os9/68000 Fm: tom farrow 72701,543 To: all I am buying a system IV from Delmar and I would like to know what kind of software there is out there for this machine and I would like to know if anyone has any problems to report about this machine? If you do then let me know what they are so I can be aware of them ahead of time. Thanks A lot. tom F 72701,543 There is 1 Reply. #: 17195 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Dec-92 01:05:19 Sb: #17193-#os9/68000 Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: tom farrow 72701,543 (X) Tom, I own a system IV and have for over two years. The machine has provided flawless operation. CDS and Delmar have released the X20 which is a 68020 25Mhz system with 16 bit AT compatible slots. This enables one to use VGA cards of those used on IBM systems. THIS IS A GREAT SYSTEM. As far as software, there are some great editors spreadsheets, and database programs, but nothing like the selection from IBM, obviously. There is 1 Reply. #: 17200 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Dec-92 21:50:26 Sb: #17195-#os9/68000 Fm: tom farrow 72701,543 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) thanks for the words of encouragement after reading some articles in os9underground I became some what worried . Thank you for putting my mind at ease. Tom Farrow There is 1 Reply. #: 17202 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Dec-92 23:49:03 Sb: #17200-#os9/68000 Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: tom farrow 72701,543 (X) what did the articles say about the system iv???? There is 1 Reply. #: 17217 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Dec-92 23:05:51 Sb: #17202-os9/68000 Fm: tom farrow 72701,543 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) The article said more about the speed of os968000 when compairing Basic09 to oskbasic. and when running 'Gwindows on a System IV with a video card Gwindows is so slow , that it has trouble keeping up with similar operations done in "MultiVue" in Level -" even though it is signifcantly more powerful than any of its competitors.and even though he is trying to say that we as a computing force (OS9 and OSK) need to be more productive together than try to fight each other over whos system is better or faster and we need to get software support for eachother rather than having to write our own to meet needs.Also stated is that os9 might stay unmatured and reminds us that most os9 terminals have no graphic support.I feel that the support is there because os9 users are fairly close knit and recognize that we can not directly compete with the likes of MSDOS AND MAC but then again why go with the second best when you have the best. #: 17194 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Dec-92 23:46:13 Sb: #17187-#atari osk u.k. Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: ole hansen 100016,3417 (X) Thanks, Ole!! kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 17206 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Dec-92 17:27:40 Sb: #17194-atari osk u.k. Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 Hello Kevin I forgot to tell, that Wolfgang did most of the TOP-porting on an Atari ;under OS968K(Cumana port). Thats why 'uemacs'(me) in version 1.0 dont work on rs232-terminals, it is written for the Atari-slcreen. best regards ole #: 17197 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Dec-92 07:19:44 Sb: #MM/1 floppy driver Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: all I just solved a nagging 'problem' with the MM/1 floppy driver. In some cases, a timeout on an access to an empty drive would prevent access to any drive until reset. From my distributed documentation: > Currently there are only two valid choices for PD_Trys, 0 and 1, with the > same meanings as in section B-2. Perhaps some of you didn't get this file, perhaps you didn't get the descriptors I provided, perhaps you think you know better. In any case, take the above as gospel. It will fix the 'problem'. For the techies, this is because the new MW convention is to treat the pd_trys field as a bit field. If it is 0, the default pattern (0xb6) is used. If it is 1, retry is disabled. Otherwise, it is a user specified bit pattern. In C, the algorithm looks like this: if ((x = pd_trys) == 0) x = 0xb6; do { if (disk_op() == OK) break; if ((x & 1) == 0) restore(); } while ((x >> 1) != 0); The shift is actually done first so that it will not restore on values for pd_trys of 1, 3, 7, 15, 31, 63, 127, or 255. Without a restore, it will never recover from the error. Carl There is 1 Reply. #: 17209 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Dec-92 03:34:08 Sb: #17197-#MM/1 floppy driver Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, > From my distributed documentation: > > Currently there are only two valid choices for PD_Trys, 0 and 1, with the > > same meanings as in section B-2. I'm assuming that you mean trys=0 or trys=1 in dmode for this parameter? /*------------- /\/\ark -------------*/ There is 1 Reply. #: 17214 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Dec-92 21:23:10 Sb: #17209-MM/1 floppy driver Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Yes, PD_Trys == trys in dmode. - Carl #: 17216 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Dec-92 21:22:02 Sb: #16928-#termcap Fm: David George 72240,134 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) When you change the scrolling region with cs, only E SC sequences that will normally scroll the screen are effected. I have a lot of info on termcap (especially in the Unix world). I can lookup the ESC sequences that will obey the new scrolling region if you need them. From memory I have Del line, Ins line, Cursor down. If you del line within the scrolling region all of the lines from the cursor to the bottom of the scrolling region will move up deleting the line that the cursor is on. BTW, I am preparing a file now that has all of the AT&T termcap codes (includeing the ones that only came about to mimic the new terminfo sequences). With these extended sequences we will have the standard Termcap codes that Microware didn't tell us about. There is 1 Reply. #: 17221 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Dec-92 16:50:06 Sb: #17216-termcap Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: David George 72240,134 (X) David, thanks for the help with 'cs'. I finally have it working properly with my VED editor. I was real confused for awhile--I had the arguments backwards. To send the sequence you do (assuming that CS is the ptr to the 'cs' string): putpad(tgoto(CS,number_of_lines,top_line)); Sending a LF at the bottom line will cause scrolling to occur in the region. Are you going to post your termcap info? I have the O'Reilly book as a reference and it seems quite complete. The only problem supporting this on the MM/1 and VT100 is that to simulate this with Kwindows you need to do a CWAREA(topline,0,numlines,ncols). I was going to be tricky and define a 'cs' for kwindows. But it won't work--you have to send binary 0's for the top line and left column...and ya can't send a NULL in a termcap string . So I end up with two routines. #: 17219 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Dec-92 15:57:42 Sb: #16951-#MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 (X) Hi Stephen... Tried out your sound utilities - VERY nice! Can't wait for Soundworks. Has anyone else complained about hissy recording? I think it must be my hardware. The source is clean as can be (good equipment), but I think something in my MM/1 is adding the hiss. Have you considered doing a sampler with MIDI I/O (hard and software) using the MM/1 as an engine (like SampleCell for the Mac)? I know there's virtually no market, but I'd be willing to pay $500-$1000 for something at the "semi-pro" level. Another idea I've been thinking of is a wave-sequence type synth like Korg's 01/W Wavestation, but again using the MM/1 as the engine. The trouble with all these great ideas are that there's virtually zero market for them - how many MM/1 users are musicians and use MIDI and are willing to spend money on it? Not too many, probably... Sigh... Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 There is 1 Reply. #: 17247 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Dec-92 21:35:48 Sb: #17219-MM/1 - Sound Utilities Fm: Stephen Seneker 75020,3611 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Sad to say but the release of SoundWorks will be delayed about a month or so. Work 50-60 hrs. a week for other people GETS in the way of my work. %-( but I should have most of this month to work on it. To get back into things with the MM/1 I'm going to spiff up MPLAY a little by completeing the converter by adding the CT-VOC format support. About HISS. For most of my testing I use a portable CD player or tape deck. The input levels are lower than expected by the MM/1 audio port because the port is expecting -2.5V to +2.5V (or 5V pp) input. Best thing to do is use a short shielded cable. At one time I built a little op-amp circuit to boost up audio output of a stereo tape deck... What I really should do is set down and build a audio BOX for the MM/1. You know, nothing real fancy but with filtering and level matching with an indicator of some type. I doubt that the MM/1 audio port has any filter? Anyone? I've considered many possibilities for audio applications using the MM/1 as the engine but FUNDING to develop all this neat-o software has to come from somewhere. I've been told that if a full package of audio processing goodies were develop for UNIX that such would be marketable at $20,000 to $30,000, GET REAL %-). I think the MM/1 will be limited in attraction for serious users because of the audio resolution but attractable in price to home/amateur/student/... users. I may be wrong? If you interested in a collaboration of some sort I'd be interested. Note, This message may look funny... I always use wider screens! #: 17237 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Dec-92 10:43:32 Sb: #LHarc probs Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: All What version of LHarc is everyone using these days?? I've got V.1.00 , V.1.02 and V.1.03 and am running into a problem trying to extract files -- namely WIND48.LZH and WINDOC.LZH. Trying a 'lharc -x windoc.lzh' gives a message something like "LHARC:ERROR:can't handle format:filename" Anybody have any hints or pointers? TIA... ...Jim There is 1 Reply. #: 17239 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Dec-92 12:20:58 Sb: #17237-#LHarc probs Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Jim, The problem may be that these file were archived using lha and not lharc. Look in the darabase for the latest version of lha and download it. That should fix your problem. I was able to download and decompress both of the files you mention with lha. I'm not sure exactly what the differences are, but lha is becoming the standard since it has been ported to UNIX and DOS as well, and it is very good at compressing files. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 17241 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Dec-92 11:02:01 Sb: #17239-LHarc probs Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Thanks Mark.. I'll go grab it now. ..Jim